Sure Hurley plays better as a defender. Carlisle is the same. Put quite simply, playing as a defender is easier, and just about any good key forward would be able to play as a key defender and succeed. Carey dominated at CHB when he got the chance. Not sure Jackovic would've been as good playing up forward. When Hird played CHB he made it look easy. Even Lucas, who seemed to have all the traits of a forward, won a B&F at CHB. There's also the likes of Terry Daniher, Van der Haar, Glendinning, Quinlan... Fact is, it's easier to stop someone from getting the ball than it is to win it yourself. And as a defender, you have the luxury of having the play in front of you. As a forward, more often than not the goals are to your back when you win the ball.They are great questions, & open for some debate. Alongside the other questions ..
eg: Does Hurls play better in defence than fwd?? Many would say yes.
The great unknown is CAN Carlisle play better fwd than down back ...
theres not enough data on this yet to make a call.
I think there could be a lot of the pre season used for the gathering of it.
Carlisle is a natural forward and competitor - He will provide a more consistent CHF option then Hurley and provide break evens for our small forwards if he doesn't take the mark. His contested work is his strength along with his ability to read the play! He takes marks at the highest point and this will force defenders to panic and give away frees!
Bomber will see the benefits of JC forward and Hurley in defence!
IMO Carlisle is the marginally better defender because he is taller (to impact contests better) and also takes more defensive marks.
However I feel he is a far better forward purely from the limited time he had up forward this year & the impact he made. And the 12 marks he took up fwd in what his first or second game.
We need the fwd line to be able to capitalise on our defence and midfields good play which doesnt happen when the CHF is a poor mark and a poor shot for goal. Also gives a chance for midfield/defence to rest/reset structure when marks get taken across half forward.
Carlisle far more likely to find space fwd than Hurley (its natural for him)
Carlisle far more likely to take a mark either contested or on the lead, is taller, smarter instinctively fwd and his hands are awesome. Plus he always wants front spot whereas Hurley instigates wrestling and tries to win ball over back.
Carlisle far more likely to at least halve the contest (not get outmarked by taller defender) and direct ball if he cant mark thus bringing our smaller players into the fray
Carlisle far more likely to kick clutch goals. His technique & confidence in front of goals just looks far better. That goal from a set shot vs’s WC on the boundary from 50m was phenomenal. As was the fend off and goal versus Carlton.
F: Chappy Daniher Belly
HF: Kommer Carlisle Winders
or if the derp aint ready/ we want smaller fwd line
F: Chappy Belly Winders
HF: Kommer Carlisle Edwards
IMO Carlisle is the marginally better defender because he is taller and also takes more defensive marks.
However I feel he is a far better forward purely from the limited time he had up forward this year & the impact he made. And the 12 marks he took up fwd in what his first or second game.
We need the fwd line to be able to capitalise on our defence and midfields good play which doesnt happen when the CHF is a poor mark and a poor shot for goal. Also gives a chance for midfield/defence to rest/reset structure when marks get taken across half forward.
Carlisle far more likely to find space fwd than Hurley (its natural for him)
Carlisle far more likely to take a mark either contested or on the lead, is taller, smarter instinctively fwd and his hands are awesome. Plus he always wants front spot whereas Hurley instigates wrestling and tries to win ball over back.
Carlisle far more likely to at least halve the contest (not get outmarked by taller defender) and direct ball if he cant mark thus bringing our smaller players into the fray
Carlisle far more likely to kick clutch goals. His technique & confidence in front of goals just looks far better. That goal from a set shot vs's WC on the boundary from 50m was phenomenal. As was the fend off and goal versus Carlton.
Carlisle CHF
Hurley FB
Hoping that happens.
Just to throw a spanner in the works, what about Fletcher at CHF? Hibberd into the midfield.
Both Carlisle and Hurley stay in the backline.
Bomber: Fletch, we know you’re 38, built like a toothpick, and have 20 years of AFL experience playing as a defender, but we want to move you to the most physically demanding position on the ground. You’re playing CHF next season.
Fletch: I’m out of here.
In theory it’d be nice post Fletch to have Hooker CHB, Hurley FB, Carlisle - fletch role but we need Carlisle fwd and perhaps in 2015 Gregory will be ready to make an impact as the third kpd with Hooker and Hurls.
Hurley should play back, because when he was a teenager in underage competition, he played back.
Carlisle should play forward for the same reason.
Because, where you played as a teenager is far more important and relevant, than where you’ve played as a senior AFL footballer.
I don't buy this Hurley back talk. Its been obvious since his first few games that he is natural defender yet they continue to play him forward, why would they change now, especially with Crameri leaving.
Ryder / Belly in the goal square
Winders & Chappy, probably will be our best forwards but obviously pretty brittle.
That probably leaves a grunt forward like Kommer or Merret.
Resting mid.
Joe will probably play 10 - 15 games when injuries / suspensions to Ryder, Belly and Hurley.
So, we are not in terrible shape, if Winders & Chappy have a good run with injuries....
JC may have had a good half season as a backman but he also has half forward written all over him.
He was recuited as a forward.
Has buckets to mark.
Needs some games to settle and kick a few and he will come round to the idea.
Look out mid season! JC comfortable high half forward and JD in the grove forward with chappy n winders at there feet....... Formidable!
Out of curiosity how do you know he was recruited as a forward?
And were you not happy with his AA form from rounds 1-12 or so?
JC may have had a good half season as a backman but he also has half forward written all over him.
He was recuited as a forward.
Has buckets to mark.
Needs some games to settle and kick a few and he will come round to the idea.
Look out mid season! JC comfortable high half forward and JD in the grove forward with chappy n winders at there feet....... Formidable!Out of curiosity how do you know he was recruited as a forward?
And were you not happy with his AA form from rounds 1-12 or so?
He was very good in the first half of the year but wasn't in AA form, Essendon supporters have a way of inflating player performances!
His first quarter against Waite showed the weaknesses in JCs defensive side and clubs focused on this in the second half of the year.
He was very good in the first half of the year but wasn't in AA form, Essendon supporters have a way of inflating player performances!
Out of curiosity how do you know he was recruited as a forward?
JC may have had a good half season as a backman but he also has half forward written all over him.
He was recuited as a forward.
Has buckets to mark.
Needs some games to settle and kick a few and he will come round to the idea.
Look out mid season! JC comfortable high half forward and JD in the grove forward with chappy n winders at there feet....... Formidable!
And were you not happy with his AA form from rounds 1-12 or so?
His first quarter against Waite showed the weaknesses in JCs defensive side and clubs focused on this in the second half of the year.
Was easily the best key defender in the game in the first half of the year. And it was mainly opposition fans who thought so.
Going forward is what threw his game off
staying fit is hurley’ s problem. if he didnt spend half a season on the sidelines he’d be a 40+ goal forward a year because he generally snags a few when he’s playing.
we’ve lost enough from the forward line. we already have JC, fletch, pears and hooker down back. keep hurls forward.
Gregory for CHB!
JC may have had a good half season as a backman but he also has half forward written all over him.
He was recuited as a forward.
Has buckets to mark.
Needs some games to settle and kick a few and he will come round to the idea.
Look out mid season! JC comfortable high half forward and JD in the grove forward with chappy n winders at there feet....... Formidable!Out of curiosity how do you know he was recruited as a forward?
And were you not happy with his AA form from rounds 1-12 or so?
He was very good in the first half of the year but wasn't in AA form, Essendon supporters have a way of inflating player performances!
His first quarter against Waite showed the weaknesses in JCs defensive side and clubs focused on this in the second half of the year.
Agree with your post. Hibberd was the one who was closer to AA. But once the media pumps up your tyres, it influences the AA selectors.
Anyway Carlisle has enough talent to be AA in the next 2 or 3 years.
He was very good in the first half of the year but wasn't in AA form, Essendon supporters have a way of inflating player performances!
Out of curiosity how do you know he was recruited as a forward?JC may have had a good half season as a backman but he also has half forward written all over him.
He was recuited as a forward.
Has buckets to mark.
Needs some games to settle and kick a few and he will come round to the idea.
Look out mid season! JC comfortable high half forward and JD in the grove forward with chappy n winders at there feet....... Formidable!
And were you not happy with his AA form from rounds 1-12 or so?
His first quarter against Waite showed the weaknesses in JCs defensive side and clubs focused on this in the second half of the year.
Was easily the best key defender in the game in the first half of the year. And it was mainly opposition fans who thought so.
Going forward is what threw his game off
Can you please provide some examples as why he was the best key defender in the game in first half of year?
Our first half of the year our midfield pressure improved and so did our defensive running patterns, I feel these were big influences for our overall improvement last year and I think this also allowed JC opportunities to take the front position and read the ball coming in, using his amazing aerial ability.
I do think he was good in defence but I don't think he defends well. He ball watches and backs in his judgement, which is an attacking mindset to have, smart forwards and teams that move the ball quickly will trouble JC in defence.
is a big worry........
Bomber may release Fletcher from backline duties with Hurley going down there.
I reckon if the situation allows for it, Steinberg will at least be given a chance in the forward line at AFL level to show what he’s got.
He was very good in the first half of the year but wasn't in AA form, Essendon supporters have a way of inflating player performances!
Out of curiosity how do you know he was recruited as a forward?JC may have had a good half season as a backman but he also has half forward written all over him.
He was recuited as a forward.
Has buckets to mark.
Needs some games to settle and kick a few and he will come round to the idea.
Look out mid season! JC comfortable high half forward and JD in the grove forward with chappy n winders at there feet....... Formidable!
And were you not happy with his AA form from rounds 1-12 or so?
His first quarter against Waite showed the weaknesses in JCs defensive side and clubs focused on this in the second half of the year.
Was easily the best key defender in the game in the first half of the year. And it was mainly opposition fans who thought so.
Going forward is what threw his game off
Can you please provide some examples as why he was the best key defender in the game in first half of year?
Our first half of the year our midfield pressure improved and so did our defensive running patterns, I feel these were big influences for our overall improvement last year and I think this also allowed JC opportunities to take the front position and read the ball coming in, using his amazing aerial ability.
I do think he was good in defence but I don't think he defends well. He ball watches and backs in his judgement, which is an attacking mindset to have, smart forwards and teams that move the ball quickly will trouble JC in defence.
I hate it when people say things like this because unsurprisingly its pretty hard to recall specific instances to back up ones point when the AFL season is well and truly over, and when those specific events that we need to recall occurred over half a year ago.
However a few little things come to mind, for example, the pirouette and kick out of danger in the final quarter of the Freo game when Colyer shanked a kick to him, getting belted against Waite but then going forward and kicking a monster goal and setting up others and then taking a game winning mark in the final few seconds against Carlton, getting injured on ANZAC day but telling the trainer to fark off and a matter of seconds later even though he could barely run, take a goal saving mark with two Collingwood forwards coming right at him and kicking that goal against West Coast from 50m out on the boundary line.
Sure they are just highlights of Carlisle's first half and those instances themselves don't add up to a reason to be AA, but you don't do that sort of ■■■■ while playing as a defender if you aren't in absolutely stellar form. He was playing with untold levels of warranted confidence and poise.
Let's wait and see what Bomber does.
We have nothing else to do other than speculate, you can't take that away from us.