As much as a lot of us would like to see a heap of player movement it's not exactly a viable option, you could argue about how successfully Hawthorn did it, but then look at Geelong, during their flag years their superstars were all homegrown. I don't think our list is really the issue, there are maybe a few minor tweaks needed but the main thing is our game plan and structure aren't the best, and really a lot of that starts at the top with management, and now with things seemingly running properly again and the introduction of the new facility we should see improvement on the field next year.
I'd trade a good solid 80% of Blitzers to Bigfooty for absolutely nothing.
But would that mean it's a trade, if it's for nothing?
I would have traded a ruckman, probably Ryder, for a damn good young midfielder.
I’m not convinced two specialist ruckmen are the way to go. Very rarely have Ryder and Bellchambers performed well on the same day sharing ruck duties. The best combination in my opinion is a specialist ruck and a relief forward/ruck. I’d retain Gumby for that role, which he would share with Joey.
In the end I reckon the combination of Bellchambers or Ryder and Gumby or Daniher would be more productive than a Bellchambers/Ryder pairing. Ruckmen historically have performed better when they are not expected to equally share the ruckwork, and Gumby is a more productive forwrard than Ryder or Bellchambers. Next season or soon enough, I expect Joey will be the best forward out of the four. And we would have he benefit of having a highly rated youngster on our list to add depth to the midfield and form a productive partnership with the likes of Heppell and Melksham once Watson and Goddard retire. This would probably necessitate recruiting a mature state league ruckman, or a recycled type as insurance should injury strike.
Neither Bellchambers or Ryder finished anywhere near the top ten of our B&F this year, and both spent time in the VFL due to form issues when sharing the ruck. Both produced their best footy when the other was absent. Ryder may look like he has the tools to be a productive forward, but he only managed 10 goals from 17 games, despite spending considerable time forward. He simply does not have the instincts of a forward, and struggles to get involved at times playing that position. Bellchambers is a better forward than Ryder, and has had to spend more time up front due to Ryder’s lack of effectiveness in that position. But he is clearly a ruckman first, and his talents are wasted playing more forward than ruck.
I would have traded a ruckman, probably Ryder, for a damn good young midfielder.
I'm not convinced two specialist ruckmen are the way to go. Very rarely have Ryder and Bellchambers performed well on the same day sharing ruck duties. The best combination in my opinion is a specialist ruck and a relief forward/ruck. I'd retain Gumby for that role, which he would share with Joey.
In the end I reckon the combination of Bellchambers or Ryder and Gumby or Daniher would be more productive than a Bellchambers/Ryder pairing. Ruckmen historically have performed better when they are not expected to equally share the ruckwork, and Gumby is a more productive forwrard than Ryder or Bellchambers. Next season or soon enough, I expect Joey will be the best forward out of the four. And we would have he benefit of having a highly rated youngster on our list to add depth to the midfield and form a productive partnership with the likes of Heppell and Melksham once Watson and Goddard retire. This would probably necessitate recruiting a mature state league ruckman, or a recycled type as insurance should injury strike.
Neither Bellchambers or Ryder finished anywhere near the top ten of our B&F this year, and both spent time in the VFL due to form issues when sharing the ruck. Both produced their best footy when the other was absent. Ryder may look like he has the tools to be a productive forward, but he only managed 10 goals from 17 games, despite spending considerable time forward. He simply does not have the instincts of a forward, and struggles to get involved at times playing that position. Bellchambers is a better forward than Ryder, and has had to spend more time up front due to Ryder's lack of effectiveness in that position. But he is clearly a ruckman first, and his talents are wasted playing more forward than ruck.
pretty hard to argue with any of that. good post
Dude that's no Disneyland, that's on another planet. That's like space mountain in an unestablished Nebula.
Pure Disneyland.
Trade Crameri and Gumby to the Dogs for Pick 4. I think this would be a good result for both, dogs get some serious tall talent in one hit, we get a compensation we can use and doesn't feel like we are getting screwed.
Trade Jetta and Pick 4 to WC for Shuey and a third round selection.
Draft wise, take Garlett with out first pick. Then I would be looking for some faster medium and small forwards followed by a rookie ruckman, tippa, clothier and an American basketball player as a potential ruck.
I don't think it's that far out there, Crameri for a pick is worth more than 22 on its own. Dogs don't have a 7-13 pick which is what I think he is worth. Gumby is worth a late second earth third round selection. Dogs are light on for talls and are going to have to draft for them this year. With this deal they get a top KPP, a highly talented KPP, who appears over his injury trouble. It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility.
I really believe getting Chappy would benefit us.
Only way i'd consider Chapman is if he came at $100k for one year. And thats only for a role as a mentor for current young players on the list and maybe play 2-10 games.
Dude that's no Disneyland, that's on another planet. That's like space mountain in an unestablished Nebula.
Pure Disneyland.Trade Crameri and Gumby to the Dogs for Pick 4. I think this would be a good result for both, dogs get some serious tall talent in one hit, we get a compensation we can use and doesn't feel like we are getting screwed.
Trade Jetta and Pick 4 to WC for Shuey and a third round selection.
Draft wise, take Garlett with out first pick. Then I would be looking for some faster medium and small forwards followed by a rookie ruckman, tippa, clothier and an American basketball player as a potential ruck.
I don't think it's that far out there, Crameri for a pick is worth more than 22 on its own. Dogs don't have a 7-13 pick which is what I think he is worth. Gumby is worth a late second earth third round selection. Dogs are light on for talls and are going to have to draft for them this year. With this deal they get a top KPP, a highly talented KPP, who appears over his injury trouble. It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility.
So if we had pick 4, would you trade that pick for 10 and 36? There's no point in trying to justify Gumby at this stage, he's been unlucky but that doesn't count for anything, it doesn't mean we can trade him for a higher pick because he still has potential. I think the issue with our list is not that the quality isn't there, its that we have players who aren't willing to realise their potential whether that be due to matureness or desire or something. You've also got to remember Crameri isn't kicking many goals either 30 goals is however many games he played isn't gonna light the world on fire, yes he could be a 50 goals forward and he probably will be, but that counts for nothing. Ablett Jnr was kicking 40 goals a year in his Geelong days as a full-time midfielder, what does that say about Crameri really? As a 100% forward.
So if we had pick 4, would you trade that pick for 10 and 36? There's no point in trying to justify Gumby at this stage, he's been unlucky but that doesn't count for anything, it doesn't mean we can trade him for a higher pick because he still has potential. I think the issue with our list is not that the quality isn't there, its that we have players who aren't willing to realise their potential whether that be due to matureness or desire or something. You've also got to remember Crameri isn't kicking many goals either 30 goals is however many games he played isn't gonna light the world on fire, yes he could be a 50 goals forward and he probably will be, but that counts for nothing. Ablett Jnr was kicking 40 goals a year in his Geelong days as a full-time midfielder, what does that say about Crameri really? As a 100% forward.
I don't think it's that far out there, Crameri for a pick is worth more than 22 on its own. Dogs don't have a 7-13 pick which is what I think he is worth. Gumby is worth a late second earth third round selection. Dogs are light on for talls and are going to have to draft for them this year. With this deal they get a top KPP, a highly talented KPP, who appears over his injury trouble. It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility.Dude that's no Disneyland, that's on another planet. That's like space mountain in an unestablished Nebula.Pure Disneyland.Trade Crameri and Gumby to the Dogs for Pick 4. I think this would be a good result for both, dogs get some serious tall talent in one hit, we get a compensation we can use and doesn't feel like we are getting screwed.
Trade Jetta and Pick 4 to WC for Shuey and a third round selection.
Draft wise, take Garlett with out first pick. Then I would be looking for some faster medium and small forwards followed by a rookie ruckman, tippa, clothier and an American basketball player as a potential ruck.
Would I trade pick 4 for pick 10 and 36, depending on a whole bunch of assumptions maybe. Richmond did a similar thing to get Reiwolt, they dropped a few places in the draft because the player they wanted was still going to be there at 8 and got something else in return.
Clearly you don't rate Crameri as highly as I do, but with the big offer from the dogs he is up there as a top player in a side, I would think he would easily walk into the best 22 of any team in the AFL. Everyone on here seems to agree that he is worth more than pick 22.
The other consideration for the dogs is what's available at 4 vs 22. If they are after a KPP but the talent between 2-8 is all mids (assuming Boyd is gone) they may not be that interested. But if the talent they like for the player type (KPP, Ruck) is around the 18-30 mark then keeping 22 might be more important to their strategy than 4. Kinda like Richmond and Reiwolt.
There is obviously too much information we don't know to really be able to understand what their position is. But from postulating behind my keyboard, it's a deal the dogs should consider strongly.
If I were Trading Manager I would be banking the 400K/year we were going to pay Crameri and go very hard at the best available free agent at the end of the 2014 season (once we've locked away all our key players naturally).
I wouldn't be paying overs this year to anyone - either by using the draft pick(s) we get for Crameri or contracting a Chapman for 2 years & big money.
I would have traded a ruckman, probably Ryder, for a damn good young midfielder.
I'm not convinced two specialist ruckmen are the way to go. Very rarely have Ryder and Bellchambers performed well on the same day sharing ruck duties. The best combination in my opinion is a specialist ruck and a relief forward/ruck. I'd retain Gumby for that role, which he would share with Joey.
In the end I reckon the combination of Bellchambers or Ryder and Gumby or Daniher would be more productive than a Bellchambers/Ryder pairing. Ruckmen historically have performed better when they are not expected to equally share the ruckwork, and Gumby is a more productive forwrard than Ryder or Bellchambers. Next season or soon enough, I expect Joey will be the best forward out of the four. And we would have he benefit of having a highly rated youngster on our list to add depth to the midfield and form a productive partnership with the likes of Heppell and Melksham once Watson and Goddard retire. This would probably necessitate recruiting a mature state league ruckman, or a recycled type as insurance should injury strike.
Neither Bellchambers or Ryder finished anywhere near the top ten of our B&F this year, and both spent time in the VFL due to form issues when sharing the ruck. Both produced their best footy when the other was absent. Ryder may look like he has the tools to be a productive forward, but he only managed 10 goals from 17 games, despite spending considerable time forward. He simply does not have the instincts of a forward, and struggles to get involved at times playing that position. Bellchambers is a better forward than Ryder, and has had to spend more time up front due to Ryder's lack of effectiveness in that position. But he is clearly a ruckman first, and his talents are wasted playing more forward than ruck.
pretty hard to argue with any of that. good post
What happens when Bellchambers gets injured or suspended? You field Gumbleton and Daniher in the ruck?
I'm not against your overall argument, but I don't think with Crameri leaving that Hurley, Gumbleton, Daniher, Bellchambers provides anything like a well rounded group of talls, and most teams play four talls. Hell, Hawthorn play five.
Also, I'm almost certain Ryder didn't play any games in the VFL this year.
I am so glad blitz has nothing to do with managing the list. I have a headache reading some of these suggestions.
I would have traded a ruckman, probably Ryder, for a damn good young midfielder.
I'm not convinced two specialist ruckmen are the way to go. Very rarely have Ryder and Bellchambers performed well on the same day sharing ruck duties. The best combination in my opinion is a specialist ruck and a relief forward/ruck. I'd retain Gumby for that role, which he would share with Joey.
In the end I reckon the combination of Bellchambers or Ryder and Gumby or Daniher would be more productive than a Bellchambers/Ryder pairing. Ruckmen historically have performed better when they are not expected to equally share the ruckwork, and Gumby is a more productive forwrard than Ryder or Bellchambers. Next season or soon enough, I expect Joey will be the best forward out of the four. And we would have he benefit of having a highly rated youngster on our list to add depth to the midfield and form a productive partnership with the likes of Heppell and Melksham once Watson and Goddard retire. This would probably necessitate recruiting a mature state league ruckman, or a recycled type as insurance should injury strike.
Neither Bellchambers or Ryder finished anywhere near the top ten of our B&F this year, and both spent time in the VFL due to form issues when sharing the ruck. Both produced their best footy when the other was absent. Ryder may look like he has the tools to be a productive forward, but he only managed 10 goals from 17 games, despite spending considerable time forward. He simply does not have the instincts of a forward, and struggles to get involved at times playing that position. Bellchambers is a better forward than Ryder, and has had to spend more time up front due to Ryder's lack of effectiveness in that position. But he is clearly a ruckman first, and his talents are wasted playing more forward than ruck.
pretty hard to argue with any of that. good post
What happens when Bellchambers gets injured or suspended? You field Gumbleton and Daniher in the ruck?
I'm not against your overall argument, but I don't think with Crameri leaving that Hurley, Gumbleton, Daniher, Bellchambers provides anything like a well rounded group of talls, and most teams play four talls. Hell, Hawthorn play five.
Also, I'm almost certain Ryder didn't play any games in the VFL this year.
Thats a lot of coin you have tied up in a what if. I would suggest you get a VFL ruckman and perhaps draft one, and use the salary cap money elsewhere. Ryder is not consistent enough....If he is to play the back up ruckman 500k is a lot of money to be paying.
Paggage up small forwards Jetta,delolio,Davey,to melb for pick 80 and pick up one that will improve our list
Baggage up small forwards Jetta,delolio,Davey,to melb for pick 80 and pick up one that will improve our list
I wouldn't doubt Antler has some luggage that would fit those three in it.
- Why would Pears be Fletches back up. If he isn't able to surpass Fletch this year then there is practically no hope for him. Stuff being security for a player, if they're better than why do they need to live in the shadow of another player. Pears has the potential to be the next Josh Gibson, he has the talent, but just lacks confidence.
- No clubs have shown interest in Jetta, stop the crap that trade him for a pick, cause we're not getting anything, stop the crap that we should include him in a package cause we're not getting anything. Best case for the club with Jetta is that he is delisted.
- If Crameri is truly gone, don't get rid of Gumby because he will be playing a vital role for the team. Daniher is only 19.
- Myers and 22 for Shuey is stupid. What's the point of giving away a midfielder for a midfielder + a pick. Myers is only realising his full potential, and the 22 will be vital for us.
- Draft a mature ruckman, a KPP, a ready man midfielder (e.g. Howlett) and small forwards with a ******* goal sense.
PS. We're not getting Adams.
PPS. I would 100% use pick 22 on Garlett.
Not only do I agree with most of the sentiments you expressed, but this is a very rare post on BB that has correctly used "e.g.".
Over many years, I have seen very few posters that have managed to do it. Well done!
- Why would Pears be Fletches back up. If he isn't able to surpass Fletch this year then there is practically no hope for him. Stuff being security for a player, if they're better than why do they need to live in the shadow of another player. Pears has the potential to be the next Josh Gibson, he has the talent, but just lacks confidence.
- No clubs have shown interest in Jetta, stop the crap that trade him for a pick, cause we're not getting anything, stop the crap that we should include him in a package cause we're not getting anything. Best case for the club with Jetta is that he is delisted.
- If Crameri is truly gone, don't get rid of Gumby because he will be playing a vital role for the team. Daniher is only 19.
- Myers and 22 for Shuey is stupid. What's the point of giving away a midfielder for a midfielder + a pick. Myers is only realising his full potential, and the 22 will be vital for us.
- Draft a mature ruckman, a KPP, a ready man midfielder (e.g. Howlett) and small forwards with a ******* goal sense.
PS. We're not getting Adams.
PPS. I would 100% use pick 22 on Garlett.
Agree re Pears. He showed some promise this year, but near the end he lost his way again, and looks a shell of the promise he showed. I'd be trying to trade him while there's still some foolish notion he could turn it around.
But for the same reasons you want Pears gone, is the same reason Gumby shouldn't be held onto. Sure losing Crameri doesn't help the situation, but he couldn't break into the side this year, similar to pears.
List management is a har one for me. We need a KPF and a small forward who can play as one, but we also need better tactics and implementation of said tactics, otherwise you're just shuffling deckchairs around a sinking ship.
Sign No'B, Hardingham and Colyer asap.
Pears is an interesting one. I would probably lookto trade only IF he can land us an 2nd rounder or more (20's, early 30's).
Upgrade Dalgliesh and Steinberg. Give Cory Del another year as a rookie.
Keep Myers 100%. Only trade if he wants out.
Gumby is an interesting one also. Leaning for him staying. Is Daniher ready yet for consistent games? Is Hurley over his injuries? If no, we give GUMB an extra one year deal.
I would try and poach Savage. Quick, skillful mid who can kick goals. Don't think our 3rd rounder would be enough tho.
Chapman is a must get IMO. Place him in the F50 all day for him to mark and crumb goals. Is a dead-eye with his set-shots too.
Pass on NDS, Karnezis and Adams knowing we don't have enough to trade for.
Finally, also pass on Shaw. Crap attitude, and we have enough HBF. Don't think people realise but 2013 was his poorest season in terms of output and impact.
I haven't given up on pears but what happens to tayte may depend on how the club rates van unen and hardingham. I think pears ceiling is better than hardinghams.
Would Daniel Stewart from Port be any use as a ruck back up? I’d hate to see a situation where Ryder and bellchambers were injured and jd had to ruck all day against sandilands or Mumford. They’d break him in half!
I disagree very strongly that Bellchambers is wasted at FF. He's our best option down there, better down there than he is in ruck and seems to keep signing on for more years. It's a good arrangement.What happens when Bellchambers gets injured or suspended? You field Gumbleton and Daniher in the ruck?
pretty hard to argue with any of that. good postI would have traded a ruckman, probably Ryder, for a damn good young midfielder.
I'm not convinced two specialist ruckmen are the way to go. Very rarely have Ryder and Bellchambers performed well on the same day sharing ruck duties. The best combination in my opinion is a specialist ruck and a relief forward/ruck. I'd retain Gumby for that role, which he would share with Joey.
In the end I reckon the combination of Bellchambers or Ryder and Gumby or Daniher would be more productive than a Bellchambers/Ryder pairing. Ruckmen historically have performed better when they are not expected to equally share the ruckwork, and Gumby is a more productive forwrard than Ryder or Bellchambers. Next season or soon enough, I expect Joey will be the best forward out of the four. And we would have he benefit of having a highly rated youngster on our list to add depth to the midfield and form a productive partnership with the likes of Heppell and Melksham once Watson and Goddard retire. This would probably necessitate recruiting a mature state league ruckman, or a recycled type as insurance should injury strike.
Neither Bellchambers or Ryder finished anywhere near the top ten of our B&F this year, and both spent time in the VFL due to form issues when sharing the ruck. Both produced their best footy when the other was absent. Ryder may look like he has the tools to be a productive forward, but he only managed 10 goals from 17 games, despite spending considerable time forward. He simply does not have the instincts of a forward, and struggles to get involved at times playing that position. Bellchambers is a better forward than Ryder, and has had to spend more time up front due to Ryder's lack of effectiveness in that position. But he is clearly a ruckman first, and his talents are wasted playing more forward than ruck.
I'm not against your overall argument, but I don't think with Crameri leaving that Hurley, Gumbleton, Daniher, Bellchambers provides anything like a well rounded group of talls, and most teams play four talls. Hell, Hawthorn play five.
Also, I'm almost certain Ryder didn't play any games in the VFL this year.
We need some more speed in the midfield. As stupid as it sounds, Myers for Shuey would be a win for us, cause we have Watson and Goddard that are both Myers like in terms of speed.
I like Myers, always have, but you gotta give up something good to get something good. These draft sanctions have come at a very bad time. This year seems to have a lot of good players moving.