Is Pearl Jam Underrated?

General Gibberish Forums The Pool Room
81

Tell me what killed the scene then?

 

Why did people move back to commercial radio?

 

please enlighten me. You seem to know a hell of a lot about it.

 

And I didn't just say it was just them.

In my original post I also stated they were a lazy lazy live outfit.

Hence saying they were not overrated.

Actually I'm not the one making those claims. 

 

I don't think any 'bands' killed the scene, I think the Seattle marketing machine (as you rightly put it) is what drove it into the ground. I don't blame bands that formed in 1985 and released a studio record in 1992. 

 

For the record, I agree with your comments about playing live, but I'm basing that on a 2011 gig. And Scott looked liked an extra from The Walking Dead that night. All reports are they were pretty decent live 'back in the day.' But i have no idea. 

 

Seriously dude, chill. 

82

I thoroughly enjoyed STP - I like the jazz influence they brought to the table, and that was their own twist. Purple would be the pick by some margin.

83

STP had some ok songs and definitely rode the wave of the Seatlle scene, although that was probably much more to do with pony-tailed music execs rather than their own choosing. The Deleo brother wrote some good riffs, mainly on first 3 albums. Whilst he tried hard to get into that 'talented drugged out tortured frontman' club from that era Scott Weiland wasn't in the same caliber of Andy Wood, Cobain or Stanley and to his credit unlike the others, he's still alive. He never had to the pipes to be included with the likes of Cornell or Vedder. Drummer is terrible.

He's still doing his best to join them

84

Sorry Ant, but I'll have to disagree too. It always sucks when "alternative" crosses over to the mainstream, but if you blame anyone, you should blame stations like JJJ, 1st, the listeners/fans 2nd, the A&R guys 3rd, & then the MMM's of the world.

 

Why?

 

Coz JJJ bring the music to the "cool" kids, who are what are known as COI's (centres of influence) it starts to get popular, wave riders like MMM cross it over &  the A&R guys & record co's say find bands that sound like them.

 

The airways get flooded with it then those same COI's move on coz now it's MStream it's not cool anymore.

 

Rinse repeat. It's been the same for .. well, ever.

 

The last to blame is the band for doing the music it always did.

 

The only liftgrabbers were bands that suddenly changed style & started writing with the grunge sound, (which existed in many places other than Seattle) to try to cash in on the surge.  And there were a few.

85

I thoroughly enjoyed STP - I like the jazz influence they brought to the table, and that was their own twist. Purple would be the pick by some margin.

Agree. Funnily enough, Purple was far less 'Grunge' than Core, which is why it worked. Although, I have a soft spot for 'No.4,' which was, and still is, a surprisingly strong album. 

86

STP being one of them. They were playing funk in 1990.

 

Anyways.

 

I agree in part. But 1990-1995 was so unique.

 

Music shifted so suddenly. So quickly and so dramatically. 

 

When Nirvana was in the top 10 so was Michael and Janet Jackson Billy Ocean.

Nirvana were the only Alt band in the top 40!

 

Triple M was scrambling. The latest single from Bon Jovi or Poison didn't cut it anymore with the kids.

 

There was a clear divide. No in between. Triple M retreated. And it nearly cost them.

 

Triple J and Triple R hadn't changed. The environment had.

 

Triple J/R didn't change cos it was popular. They continued on the way. They wanted to be popular. They were all of a sudden making money and influencing. Think of the crew that came out of Triple R in the early 90s.

 

Triple M changed because they were going to die and they had an in. By 95 Nirvana/PJ/Live/STP/Garbage were staples.

People that had gone to Triple J or R because who didn't want to listen to 80s rock could all of a sudden move back to Triple M because they had made the transition.

87

“X type of music died” becomes “radio station makes programming decision”

Thank heavens radio isn’t the arbitrator of everything any more.

88

When it comes to music, do people really care about abstract notions such as "scenes", "liftgrabbing", "altrernative" and who was there first? It all sounds like a bunch of prenentious tosh to me. That people would let these ideas inform their opinions on music makes no sense to me. Listening to music to me is an emotional experience. To over-intelluctualise it by making it something cerebral diminishes the joy of it. And it can make you sound like a bit of wanker too in my opinion. Especially when you use those arguments to shoot someone else down.

89

STP being one of them.

 

They were playing funk in 1990.

 

No, the music "Press" just said they were. I remember Rolling Stones writers voting them worst new band & in the same issue, the people voted them best. Just coz journalists get a hate fixation on something doesn't make it true now, does it? :rolleyes:

 

 

"The band recorded a demo tape that was completed around 1990. The demo features tracks that would go on to be re-recorded for core as well as some musical styles that would not be featured on any of STP's studio albums, such as funk & yodeling."

 

 

So, A).They were writing in that style as early as 87. & B.)The record co decides what makes the cut in the 1st records. Left to them, they may have included others.

 

And while we lament the way music has gone (well popular at least) I have great hope for original & alternative artists in the new age.

 

With the youth being so internet savvy, with soundcloud, youtube, crowd funding and the like, the guys that used to decide what we hear at rec co's & radio stations, and those that put their snarky, drug hazed, holier than thou opinions in magazines, are becoming more & more redundant.

 

And the more that the middle men are cut out, the less the artist has to sell to make a crust, so popularity & genericism is less influential.

 

Siverchair, another band that the oh so holy ones tried to bring down  (Nirvana in Pyjamas etc) Heralded this new power after becoming big without "Big Music" and exercised great sway in the 1st contract with no less than Sony, signing for only 3 albums (Ind standard for newbys was 7 at the time) & holding artistic control.

 

Then duly telling Sony Wea to *** off when they released a "best of" after only 3 albums, against the bands wishes.

 

The death of the control of these ■■■■■■ over the writers and artists cant come quick enough.

90

When it comes to music, do people really care about abstract notions such as "scenes", "liftgrabbing", "altrernative" and who was there first? It all sounds like a bunch of prenentious tosh to me. That people would let these ideas inform their opinions on music makes no sense to me. Listening to music to me is an emotional experience. To over-intelluctualise it by making it something cerebral diminishes the joy of it. And it can make you sound like a bit of wanker too in my opinion. Especially when you use those arguments to shoot someone else down.

Good points raised. The passage of time generally makes it easier to just appraise the music for what it is, and get away from the tensions/gossip/bullshit of the time (and there's a bit of all 3 on show in this thread)
But obviously we weren't *there*, we can't *know*...
91

Also, all of what BSD said. Great post.

92

I've been flamed and that's cool.

 

I'm probably a little older than most here and the greeting of that "scene" was of high hopes as bands like the Psychos and the Hard Ons emerged from the 80s underground. It was a great time in music here.

 

From the group I hung with, STP and the bands i listed already, were looked on with suspension and end of an era from the bands that paved the way. There was an innocence that bands like Nirvana Soundgarden etc etc played for the love and not the money. Whilst the next wave were playing for the cash.

 

That was my perception and of those around me.

 

But by the sound of things I was wrong.

 

But but to the original point. STP aren't underrated. They had the record sales to prove it.

93

I've been flamed and that's cool.

 

I'm probably a little older than most here and the greeting of that "scene" was of high hopes as bands like the Psychos and the Hard Ons emerged from the 80s underground. It was a great time in music here.

 

From the group I hung with, STP and the bands i listed already, were looked on with suspension and end of an era from the bands that paved the way. There was an innocence that bands like Nirvana Soundgarden etc etc played for the love and not the money. Whilst the next wave were playing for the cash.

 

That was my perception and of those around me.

 

But by the sound of things I was wrong.

 

But but to the original point. STP aren't underrated. They had the record sales to prove it.

sorry Ant - couldn't resist the irony of a flaming being cool :)

 

have enjoyed the discussion and doesn't everyone get flamed on here?

94

Seems that way. I'm glad I shared my experience!

 

Anyways PJ and STP in the same thread is a travesty!

95

We're obviously all different but from my experiences it is a perfectly natural thing. STP, PJ, Soundgarden, the Smashing Pumpkins - they're the quartet that made me want to learn the guitar.

96

I guess for me it ended at Nirvana.

 

I nearly spat chips when I heard SuperUnknown. I thought how could they.

But for some it was the opening to Soundgarden.

 

It is all a reference point I guess.

97

Green Day totally sold out when they made a, like, record man.

98

Coincidentally, it was Dookie's 20th Anniversary a few days ago.

99

I nearly spat chips when I heard SuperUnknown. I thought how could they.


How could they what?
100

I guess for me it ended at Nirvana.
I nearly spat chips when I heard SuperUnknown. I thought how could they.
But for some it was the opening to Soundgarden.
It is all a reference point I guess.


Yeah, but they did then progress to Down on the Upside, a more umm, "Sophisticated" evolution of the "Seattle sound". I think superunknown was a genuine stepping stone, not in any way a cash in. Soundgarden are an excellent example imo of a band that pushed new frontiers and expanded their sound. And (notwithstanding the recent , err, "reunion") imo they pulled up stumps at the right time.