Is the return of Vinyl just a con to get you to part with your money?

If anything, wouldn’t a musician be more sensitive? I am just an audiophile with no technical knowledge, and I feel like I can hear immediately when something is of poor quality, e.g. an mp3 from 10 years ago which has been compressed to the shithouse…

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You are correct though to some degree and I think Mendozza touched on it. Allot of re-issues on vinyl format use the old CD-Remaster. This is simply sloppy as most people buying records for the first time wouldn’t know the difference. It’s very common in 1990’s/2000 reissues of classic albums. But now we are heading down the rabbit hole =)

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Exactly. The general consumer will never know these days. Unless the band/label came out and made a point of explicitly stating that they’ve mastered Album for Vinyl, you can safely assume it’s been mastered for CD/iPhones etc. The same thing happened when CD’s first came out. ‘Remasters’ (LOL) were just normallised to hell. Nothing wrong with CD’s as a format, but things went nuts with CD’s.

Look up the ‘Loudness War’ for more.

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Mastered for a format is still not quite the same as mastering for the best outcome to the listener.

Think of a conductor of an orchestra. The conductor cannot accommodate those who may be a little hard of hearing, older or younger (as your age changes so does the sensitivity to certain frequencies) your position in the room etc… A conductor will do what he thinks is the best sound for themselves in their position. They don’t compensation for the venue or the number of people in there either.

Thinking someone can master something to suit a particular medium better to make is sound better is a bit disengeniuous. A good master will make modifications that take advantage of, or know the limitations of the format they are mastering onto. Sounds better comes down to personal taste.

Until something like 2000, something like 50% of mastering in Australia was done with one desk (pitured below).

Analogue desk. Former Abbey road. Beatles used it a few times. You’ll notice though most masters were also transferred to DAT (digital audio tape for those who may not know). The two speakers under my arms cost about $100k and the two tall full range in the back were $250k for the pair.

We were all told to bring our favourite album to listen to them there. We were stunned at what else was there to be heard through these speakers. The top end and low end in particular was amazing, however at the end most of us preferred what we had at home. The familiarity of what we were used to was greater than the fact that there were close to the best you can get.

To answer the OP though. Yes. It was actually closely related to my thesis which was “Are the record companies catering to the needs of the average consumer?” The answer was then an overwhelming yes. People don’t want ‘the best’. People just want what sounds good to them. Do they care what format they give it to you. Not really. Today we are lucky in that you can get pretty much any format you want and it’s not that expensive to jump from one format to another. So is it a con? Not really. People want to believe what they want to believe and buy what they want to buy.

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I’ve always wondered why Dr Dre calls himself that, because in medical lingo DRE stands for Digital Rectal Exam. Now, I’m not even sure if he’s a real medical doctor, he shouldn’t be doing that stuff.

Cool Soulnet! Do you work at 301 or did some work there?

Of course it’s in the ears of the beholder… As you say a good master takes into account what platform they are using and makes changes accordingly…33/45rpm or length of LP cut, DDP Masters, Digital for download etc etc - it’s certainly not disingenuous to take this into account when providing a quality product for people. I would probably ask for my money back if they handed me one master and said use it across all platforms cos people have different ears.

Seems like most digital services have their average loudness settings and will turn the music down or up pending. What sounds good to us has been altered without us knowing. So maybe all amute point…

On topic: Before my current shop I worked at Polyester Records and had the same type of people who scoffed at “hipsters” buying records again question why they have never heard of us. Telling them the shop had been there since 1981 and vinyl has never really left always made their face drop.

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I agree. They’ve been marketed as sounding better than cd’s for a while. In reality theres a whole heap of things to take into account, like soul mentioned, speakers room size etc.

Give me 24bit 96khz uncompressed FLAC HD over OCF wiring anyday.*

*Sarcastica font

I did some work there as opposed to work there. Only as an assistant though which was crap but it was fun watching managers and audio engineers trying to keep the ‘talent’ happy.

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I meant as intended by the work that has gone into them by producers, engineers, and manufacturers, I guess. Point being there are many who like to hear it in peak quality, and a cheap setup won’t cut it for them.

Spent a fair bit of time at DMC Records on Commercial Road

Remember doing a course with Ivan Gough as the instructor, he was a master.

Love Vinyl, my take (audio quality aside) the weight and cost of each copy always make you double think the purchase. As opposed to digital downloads, when you download with out a second thought.

You loose the appreciation of a new track when you can download 20 new tracks in 5 minutes.

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Oh wow, do I love everything about this post. Just had to say it.

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Most folk buy it as a collectors item, so yes in the most part it is just a gimmick to get you to part with your cash.

I tend to buy a bit, an ever increasing amount in fact, but generally reserved for new albums I’m particularly enamoured with or old albums specifically recorded and mastered for vinyl.

But I see countless examples of millennials buying a dozen different presses of the same new record simply to have the complete set.

Does DAT have the same issue film does ie: disintegration over time?

Whats the worst album you’ve heard mastering wise?

Most musos would have some form of deafness anyway.

I’ve read Neil Young (who has the same opinion as me re vinyl releases/reissues these days) talk about mastering for each formats. Though he also developed a hugh end digital player. I doubt the average consumer notices any difference between it and their iphone.

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Neil Young used his house as a stereo!

Graham Nash – of Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young – has a story about his friend, Neil Young, that has been almost too perfect to believe for nearly three decades.

As the myth goes, Nash was at Young’s ranch just south of San Francisco when Young asked him if he wanted to hear something. (That something would become Young’s now famous 1972 “Harvest” album, which features the track “Heart of Gold.”) Nash, of course, said yes and suggested going into Young’s studio. That wasn’t Young’s plan.

“He said, ‘Get into the rowboat,’” Nash explained on NPR’s Fresh Air in 2013. “I said, ‘Get into the rowboat?’ He said, ‘Yeah, we’re going to go out into the middle of the lake.’”

The two row out on the lake, with Nash assuming Young brought a cassette player and headphones with him.
“Oh, no,” said Nash on NPR. “He has his entire house as the left speaker and his entire barn as the right speaker. And I heard ‘Harvest’ coming out of these two incredibly large loud speakers louder than hell. It was unbelievable. Elliot Mazer, who produced Neil, produced ‘Harvest,’ came down to the shore of the lake and he shouted out to Neil, ‘How was that, Neil?’”

The best part is Young’s apparent response to the situation. As Nash explained, “I swear to God, Neil Young shouted back, ‘More barn!’”

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I hope that story is true.
Old Man is a great song IMO.
Might have to give Harvest a listen from start to finish.

Is vinyl a con and a fad to some? Of course it is, it’s a bit like those Hawthorn supporters who jumped on as they were winning flags and have since jumped off the pot even quicker.

Personally, collecting vinyl can be hard yakka, it’s a serious business but ultimately it’s fun.

For me it’s about ‘digging in the crates’ as some would say, getting your hands dusty, leaning over that second last crate in the corner away from the glossy new releases, leaning with the nerves of your back starting to strain, testing your poor core strength flicking past the 10th copy of the same Engelbert ■■■■■■■ Humperdinck LP, checking every cover cos there might be gold in this one and spotting an original pressing (on further inspection, the first of two reissues and that hard to get) of Weather Report’s ‘Mysterious Traveller’ for $5 in VG condition, nary a scratch. Not quite Mint aged cover but it’ll do very nicely. Or that War LP, ‘Galaxy’ from the op shop at Vermont Big Apple shopping centre for a 2 dollar coin, which cost less than the amazing meat pie (star of anise, the key ingredient) I bought from Top Top Vietnamese bakery shortly after. So basically every LP in my collection has a story behind it and I’m sure it’s like that for most of us who collect or are even the benefactor of a bundle of say Brubeck, Miller and Helen Reddy LP’s from a deceased loved one.

I do miss the days circa 1996 when vinyl sales were close to their nadir and from memory there was only one plant pressing vinyl in the entire country. Around this time I’d stroll up to Dixon’s in Camberwell and easily pick off things like The Smiths ‘Meat is Murder’ and three Joni Mitchell LP’s all for about $8 each. Even if I wasn’t cashed up that would follow a trail onto the one in Prahran, Relic Records, Greville Records and onto those stores mentioned above. NB I’d forgotten about Extreme Aggression! I’ve seen new Meat is Murder reissues in stores on a few occasions for as high as $50. Sometimes I like to fork out for something, as I may not get the chance to do so for some time or forget. Spotting a rip off merchant is easy for me though.

Vinyl is a huge part of many scenes and genres. Northern Soul weekenders wouldn’t quite be the same without 45’s, it’s always been this way with dance music, it specifically has always played an important part in hip hop culture and still does. In the early days, DJ’s were the focal point of the party. This was prior to emcees taking the mantle, DJ’s at partys would disguise their LP labels from rivals in order to not give away the identity of the drum break on the record. It made their set better than the others and also created a mystique. As such many producers and beat makers (hacks like me) mostly older heads and purists, still prefer sampling from hard (or easily) sourced vinyl rather than ripping something straight from YouTube or Spotify and apart from gaining clearance (not always!) for the sample via lawyers and music industry people, will leave it up to the audience to discover where the sample/loop/break originated. It’s nice to hear the pops and crackles of a beat maker’s own copy too. I own some records purely for some open drums or if there’s a nice loop amongst some filler ■■■■. On the other hand a good mate who makes deep house beats, only buys stuff he’d listen to.

Getting back on topic, I’m always looking out for sibilance (letter ‘s’, ‘t’ and ‘p’ sounding like a bad crash cymbal), particularly on the inner grooves of a piece. I’ve heard it was by the mid 80’s when CD was becoming more prominent, a lot of old vinyl was being recycled and reduced with the labels still on. It was then repressed thinner for greater quantity. I have 12” of Dave Dobbyn ‘Slice Of heaven’ so thin it’s just about the most warped thing I’ve got. On Discogs I look at reviews of reissue quality. Hip hop and sample based music is so damn expensive, so after reading a poor quality review of Nas ‘Illmatic’ reissue I took a gamble on a cheap pressing - no sibilance. Nice score, got lucky. As Soulnet mentioned people listen to whatever quality they want, sibilance grates me on modern reissues but I can live with it.

So while there’s a spike in the market and online stores have made bench marks and broader price awareness, this means getting good scores on rarities is harder. A mate of mine who owns 30,000 records is finding it harder to find cheap gems that people think is just old hat rubbish. Among his greatest are two sound library records bought for a few dollars 25 years ago, both worth about a grand a pop today.

There’s a lot more wank about vinyl these days, my stories included but if it gets more people interested in owning and nurturing their own collection and happier for it - then I’m all for it. It’s a different relationship to easily using Spotify which I do from time to time but there’s more satisfaction towards the graft, the story and ownership of your own records. There was an interesting article I read recently that those of us who have collections are not the actual owners of that vinyl but the current custodians and that someday it’ll probably be owned 2nd, 3rd, 4th hand by someone else. I don’t have kids but if my nephews are good to me before I fall off the perch, they can have the lot and if they don’t want or appreciate it, hopefully it’ll fund them enough so that they can help put it towards mortgage, education, booze or whatever they want. Someone has to enjoy this vinyl when I’m done with it. I’m 40, my modest (by comparison to some) but healthy collection is 30 years old as of this Christmas, it started with INXS ‘Kick’ and Fleetwood Mac ‘Tango in the night’ but it’s still got a while to go.

Tldr - it’s a fad for others but not for some of us and has always been relevant. Some reissues are good, some not so good. Research - know your product!

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Britney Spears third album.

I’m not 100% sure about DAT to be honest (haha). I’ve got a lot of them lying around but no player to test it on!

Think I’ve heard that one. Great story.

Hip hop beat makers use good audio in their studios but the true acid test is recording it to tape and at the end of a session playing it back on a ■■■■■■ old car stereo. If it works on the worst system, it should do the same in high fidelity.

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Not an answer to the OP, but a Vinyl related story from last weekend.

Bought a couple of LP’s from JB and 1 of them had a noticeable scratch which would certainly have affected the sound.
It has to be said, the staff at JB in Brunswick were very accomodating and were happy to continue opening copies of the LP I was after, until I found one I was satisfied with.
Finally, the 3rd and last copy they had left was pristine, so I took it home satisfied.

Began listening to Side A, and whataya know…Track 2 is repeated again in the position where Track 5 should be.
I’m just wondering, how many would be Pressed at the same time with the same error ?
Must be a few (hundred, thousand ?)