Lloydy predicts Half Ton for Buckets

Football Discussion Dustin Fletcher Hangar
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Lloyd has publicly changed his opinion on where Hurls is best suited several times. I don't take much notice of what he says anymore, other than on actual goal kicking techniques etc.

Agreed - club legend for his contribution to the EFC as a footballer and will always be respected for that.
However IMHO more often than not he comes across as a flog with his media work.

 

Like I keep saying, Lloyd was a very, very good football player.

In any case, my concern about the switch has nothing to do with how many goal Jake may or may not kick.

 

the first sentence is a clear switch to the backhand grip

with the second, what is you main concern?

 

It's that few things are better in football than a settled, dare I say it close to elite back six.

Jake can kick 20, 40, 60 goals next year.  Who gives a damn if our defence is disfunctional?

Carlisle took over the leadership of the backline from Fletcher last year.  Fletcher.

As much as I dislike US terminology he ran it like a general.  That is ******* gold.

And the idea that you can just throw another guy back there with the same effect when the actual problem is and always has been that our forwardline seems to have been run by a special needs kid distracted by a shiny mobile seems to me to be stupid beyond words.

 

That's my main concern.

 

with all due respect to you i am going to go with what Bomber Thompson comes up with

 

He also captained the 93 side that played a half forward flanker at centre half back all year. I'll settle for a so called appeal to authority and go with Bomber and the decision on Hurls. He knows more about footy than most, most of the time

82

Interested in Carlisle's opinion of his game against N.Riewoldt. I thought on the day Riewoldt shaded him for points, but all I read in the media and footy forums was that Carlisle had a clear victory. This goes along with my thinking that Carlisle's overall form early in the year was over-rated by most - I kept on reading Carlisle was in AA form, when IMO, Hibberd was closer to AA. And by the same token, I continually read that Carlisle's form had fallen off the cliff - He had a poor 4 weeks from about round 15-18, but his last 4 weeks were solid. Had a bad patch but then got back most of his form.   

 

It will be interesting to see how Hurley and Carlisle go because they both have the potential to be AA - Though I think Hurley is a better pure defender than Carlisle. Go ahead in 2 or 3 years and if they both make AA we are in STRONG contention for a premiership.

83

 

Forward thinking the challenge for Carlisle

Callum Twomey  February 1, 2014 1:00 PM

 

JAKE Carlisle is over a calf injury and ready for a permanent place in Essendon's forward line, keen to use the knowledge he gained as a key defender last year to help him in a fresh role.

The 22-year-old missed almost a month of the pre-season after straining the muscle in December, but is back into full training and expects to play in the club's first NAB Challenge game next month against Gold Coast on February 17.

"Over Christmas I didn't get to do too much because I was obviously injured. I didn't have a great break, but I'm back now, refreshed and ready to go," Carlisle told AFL.com.au.

Carlisle has spent all his time before and after the injury with the forwards group under new assistant Nathan Bassett as he settles into his role as a target for the Bombers in attack.

It is not a position he is unfamiliar with; he was drafted to Essendon as a forward and kicked crucial goals in big moments last season.

But playing somewhere – and staying in the same spot – is something he is excited to take on after last year starting in the backline, pinch-hitting in attack, then mixing between both and losing form because of the constant swaps.

"'Bomber' reckons Michael Hurley is best suited back, and for myself, I'm a bit versatile so they've tried to push me forward and trying to use my marking and running ability up forward," he said.

"I'm looking forward to it, it's going to be a good challenge. It'll be tough, but in ways I think I can make it work to my favour.

"Starting the year and knowing that I will be playing forward is probably better as a mindset and better for my footy and my development. Whatever I do down back I know I can do in the forward line, and it is the toughest position on the ground."

Carlisle emerged as one of the most exciting key position players in the competition last year, playing 21 games.

At first it was as a strong, smart and skillful defender, where he used his reach and competitiveness to hold down a number of star forwards, including Fremantle's Matthew Pavlich, Collingwood's Travis Cloke and Richmond spearhead Jack Riewoldt.

By mid-year, with Essendon's forward structure struggling at times, he was moved there to have an impact and produced match-winning cameos against Carlton and West Coast.

At times he suffered because of it, wondering why he had been moved during a game, and those thoughts distracted him from the task at hand.

"It's easier to go into a season or a game knowing you are definitely going to start in one position because you can prepare yourself for the whole game," he said.

"It is a bit frustrating when you move halfway through, but it might be for the best. You might not be going well down back or in the forward line, and it's the same for 'Hurls'."

When training, Carlisle has often thought back to what some of his opponents did last year as key forward options and tried to replicate the same running patterns or techniques.

That education, coupled with watching vision of St Kilda champion Nick Riewoldt, who Carlisle played on last year, has given him a better understanding of what's required of a tall forward week-in week-out.

"I like to watch him (Riewoldt), but I also like to play on him because of the challenge and how hard he runs and where he runs to," he said.

"I was doing OK on him last year and then he got a few kicks in the backline. From then on he got himself into the game and I couldn't shut him out to be honest, and he finished a lot better than I did.

"That's going to come from experience. Another year in the system and hopefully that'll be me."

 

 

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-02-01/carlisles-forward-thinking?utm_medium=RSS

 

Love Carlisle, but surely Hooker took Pavlich?

84

Last year?

 

Nah, Carlisle destroyed Pav so bad he didn't play for 12 weeks.  

85

 

 

Forward thinking the challenge for Carlisle

Callum Twomey  February 1, 2014 1:00 PM

 

JAKE Carlisle is over a calf injury and ready for a permanent place in Essendon's forward line, keen to use the knowledge he gained as a key defender last year to help him in a fresh role.

The 22-year-old missed almost a month of the pre-season after straining the muscle in December, but is back into full training and expects to play in the club's first NAB Challenge game next month against Gold Coast on February 17.

"Over Christmas I didn't get to do too much because I was obviously injured. I didn't have a great break, but I'm back now, refreshed and ready to go," Carlisle told AFL.com.au.

Carlisle has spent all his time before and after the injury with the forwards group under new assistant Nathan Bassett as he settles into his role as a target for the Bombers in attack.

It is not a position he is unfamiliar with; he was drafted to Essendon as a forward and kicked crucial goals in big moments last season.

But playing somewhere – and staying in the same spot – is something he is excited to take on after last year starting in the backline, pinch-hitting in attack, then mixing between both and losing form because of the constant swaps.

"'Bomber' reckons Michael Hurley is best suited back, and for myself, I'm a bit versatile so they've tried to push me forward and trying to use my marking and running ability up forward," he said.

"I'm looking forward to it, it's going to be a good challenge. It'll be tough, but in ways I think I can make it work to my favour.

"Starting the year and knowing that I will be playing forward is probably better as a mindset and better for my footy and my development. Whatever I do down back I know I can do in the forward line, and it is the toughest position on the ground."

Carlisle emerged as one of the most exciting key position players in the competition last year, playing 21 games.

At first it was as a strong, smart and skillful defender, where he used his reach and competitiveness to hold down a number of star forwards, including Fremantle's Matthew Pavlich, Collingwood's Travis Cloke and Richmond spearhead Jack Riewoldt.

By mid-year, with Essendon's forward structure struggling at times, he was moved there to have an impact and produced match-winning cameos against Carlton and West Coast.

At times he suffered because of it, wondering why he had been moved during a game, and those thoughts distracted him from the task at hand.

"It's easier to go into a season or a game knowing you are definitely going to start in one position because you can prepare yourself for the whole game," he said.

"It is a bit frustrating when you move halfway through, but it might be for the best. You might not be going well down back or in the forward line, and it's the same for 'Hurls'."

When training, Carlisle has often thought back to what some of his opponents did last year as key forward options and tried to replicate the same running patterns or techniques.

That education, coupled with watching vision of St Kilda champion Nick Riewoldt, who Carlisle played on last year, has given him a better understanding of what's required of a tall forward week-in week-out.

"I like to watch him (Riewoldt), but I also like to play on him because of the challenge and how hard he runs and where he runs to," he said.

"I was doing OK on him last year and then he got a few kicks in the backline. From then on he got himself into the game and I couldn't shut him out to be honest, and he finished a lot better than I did.

"That's going to come from experience. Another year in the system and hopefully that'll be me."

 

 

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-02-01/carlisles-forward-thinking?utm_medium=RSS

 

Love Carlisle, but surely Hooker took Pavlich?

 

Not important in the scheme of things, carlisle took pavlich to the cleaners that day, though Pavlich was coming off a restricted pre-season and was obviously under-done. Carlisle's assessment of his effort against N.riewoldt, and what he learnt from that day is all important. 

86

Carlisle is a nightmare for the opposition where ever he plays.

87

 

 

 

Forward thinking the challenge for Carlisle

Callum Twomey  February 1, 2014 1:00 PM

 

JAKE Carlisle is over a calf injury and ready for a permanent place in Essendon's forward line, keen to use the knowledge he gained as a key defender last year to help him in a fresh role.

The 22-year-old missed almost a month of the pre-season after straining the muscle in December, but is back into full training and expects to play in the club's first NAB Challenge game next month against Gold Coast on February 17.

"Over Christmas I didn't get to do too much because I was obviously injured. I didn't have a great break, but I'm back now, refreshed and ready to go," Carlisle told AFL.com.au.

Carlisle has spent all his time before and after the injury with the forwards group under new assistant Nathan Bassett as he settles into his role as a target for the Bombers in attack.

It is not a position he is unfamiliar with; he was drafted to Essendon as a forward and kicked crucial goals in big moments last season.

But playing somewhere – and staying in the same spot – is something he is excited to take on after last year starting in the backline, pinch-hitting in attack, then mixing between both and losing form because of the constant swaps.

"'Bomber' reckons Michael Hurley is best suited back, and for myself, I'm a bit versatile so they've tried to push me forward and trying to use my marking and running ability up forward," he said.

"I'm looking forward to it, it's going to be a good challenge. It'll be tough, but in ways I think I can make it work to my favour.

"Starting the year and knowing that I will be playing forward is probably better as a mindset and better for my footy and my development. Whatever I do down back I know I can do in the forward line, and it is the toughest position on the ground."

Carlisle emerged as one of the most exciting key position players in the competition last year, playing 21 games.

At first it was as a strong, smart and skillful defender, where he used his reach and competitiveness to hold down a number of star forwards, including Fremantle's Matthew Pavlich, Collingwood's Travis Cloke and Richmond spearhead Jack Riewoldt.

By mid-year, with Essendon's forward structure struggling at times, he was moved there to have an impact and produced match-winning cameos against Carlton and West Coast.

At times he suffered because of it, wondering why he had been moved during a game, and those thoughts distracted him from the task at hand.

"It's easier to go into a season or a game knowing you are definitely going to start in one position because you can prepare yourself for the whole game," he said.

"It is a bit frustrating when you move halfway through, but it might be for the best. You might not be going well down back or in the forward line, and it's the same for 'Hurls'."

When training, Carlisle has often thought back to what some of his opponents did last year as key forward options and tried to replicate the same running patterns or techniques.

That education, coupled with watching vision of St Kilda champion Nick Riewoldt, who Carlisle played on last year, has given him a better understanding of what's required of a tall forward week-in week-out.

"I like to watch him (Riewoldt), but I also like to play on him because of the challenge and how hard he runs and where he runs to," he said.

"I was doing OK on him last year and then he got a few kicks in the backline. From then on he got himself into the game and I couldn't shut him out to be honest, and he finished a lot better than I did.

"That's going to come from experience. Another year in the system and hopefully that'll be me."

 

 

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-02-01/carlisles-forward-thinking?utm_medium=RSS

 

Love Carlisle, but surely Hooker took Pavlich?

 

Not important in the scheme of things, carlisle took pavlich to the cleaners that day, though Pavlich was coming off a restricted pre-season and was obviously under-done. Carlisle's assessment of his effort against N.riewoldt, and what he learnt from that day is all important. 

 

Must be thinking of two years ago.

88

Carlisle's one on one effort against Pav in the dying stages was close to the best thing that happened last year.

89

Carlisle can read the play and clunk a grab. Hurley can read the play and win contests, not always taking the grab, but ensuring his man doesn’t and will fight tooth and nail to win the second contest.

And after Waite kicked half his annual goals in a half on Carlisle, who shut him out of the game?

I think bomber has the right idea.

90

To those saying he took control and leadership of the backline over Fletch.. did he really?
I think Hooker, Pig and Dempsey showed a lot more leadership down back than Carlisle did.

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To those saying he took control and leadership of the backline over Fletch.. did he really?
I think Hooker, Pig and Dempsey showed a lot more leadership down back than Carlisle did.

You obviously didn't go to many games last year then.

92

You'd spew if you were named on Carlisle.

A lump of 4x2 in the carpark.

93

Carlisle can read the play and clunk a grab. Hurley can read the play and win contests, not always taking the grab, but ensuring his man doesn't and will fight tooth and nail to win the second contest.
And after Waite kicked half his annual goals in a half on Carlisle, who shut him out of the game?
I think bomber has the right idea.

I disagree. I think Hurley's biggest problem is he is terrible at reading the play. It's also why I think this move had to happen.

 

Wim, I understand your point about messing with the back 6. I don't agree but I take your point. However I really have to call you out on Carlisle being the "general" of the defence. Just because he was the player in best form didn't make him the general. I didn't see him yelling and pointing at all. He took his man and he did a damn fine job of shutting him out, but he was no general. Regardless there should be others who can fill that role. Fletcher is still there. Hooker has more experience and should be taking on that responsibility anyway. The backline didn't all of a sudden fall apart with the absence of Carlisle when they made the switch last year. In fact you could argue that making the switch won us the games against Eagles and Blues.

 

As for the argument that "it wasn't Hurley's fault - the forward structure is/was broken", I think most would agree the forward structure is broken, but those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Hurley can still be a ■■■■ forward in a ■■■■ forward line, in fact he pretty much admitted as much

 

 

 

For me, I found it hard in the forward line knowing where to go and where to run.

 

Also not sure why people think Hurley being an under-18 AA full back is irrelevant. The man himself doesn't.

 

 

 

As a junior, I played my whole career as a backman. I just feel really comfortable back there.
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I guess this means that he's going to have to kick 10 in each of the first 5 rounds because after that he'll be back in the back line.

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To those saying he took control and leadership of the backline over Fletch.. did he really?
I think Hooker, Pig and Dempsey showed a lot more leadership down back than Carlisle did.

You obviously didn't go to many games last year then.

You obviously don't have a farking clue how many games any of the posters here go to, with all due respect.
For the 15 odd games I went to I saw Carlisle do a lot of great things down back, but I think its a great stretch to say that he took charge of the back line.
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I disagree. I think Hurley's biggest problem is he is terrible at reading the play. It's also why I think this move had to happen.

Yeah, nah. Hurley is a great reader of the play assuming he is in the backline. In fact one of the reasons he can compete with guys like Tippett (and he did back in 2012) is because he can out-anticipate most forwards.

 

The fact he isn't a good forward (IMO anyway) isn't to do with reading the play, it's because forwards have to make the play and dictact where the ball will go as opposed to anticipating what will happen, and Hurley is much better at the second (IMO, again).

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Lloydy knows best buckets kicks 50 no more is to be said here.

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I disagree. I think Hurley's biggest problem is he is terrible at reading the play. It's also why I think this move had to happen.

Yeah, nah. Hurley is a great reader of the play assuming he is in the backline. In fact one of the reasons he can compete with guys like Tippett (and he did back in 2012) is because he can out-anticipate most forwards.

 

The fact he isn't a good forward (IMO anyway) isn't to do with reading the play, it's because forwards have to make the play and dictact where the ball will go as opposed to anticipating what will happen, and Hurley is much better at the second (IMO, again).

 

I think you make a good point at reading the play vs making the play, I agree with that. And I agree Hurley is better at reading the play than making the play (of course making the play is much more difficult). But I see Hurley more as the sort of player who will let his opponent take him to the ball and then beat him when they get there rather than anticipating where the ball is going. Fletcher is the perfect example of a player who anticipates where the ball is going and knows when to leave his man and when to stay with him. I personally don't see that with Hurley (yet?). I think he will be much more a tight checking backman. He will definitely run off his man at the appropriate time, but I don't see him really being great at reading the play. Following a man and then beating him in a one-on-one contest doesn't make you a good reader of the play. He is good in a contest and knows how to use his body even when he is giving away height.

99

To those saying he took control and leadership of the backline over Fletch.. did he really?
I think Hooker, Pig and Dempsey showed a lot more leadership down back than Carlisle did.

You obviously didn't go to many games last year then.

You obviously don't have a farking clue how many games any of the posters here go to, with all due respect.
For the 15 odd games I went to I saw Carlisle do a lot of great things down back, but I think its a great stretch to say that he took charge of the back line.

Agree! From games I watched..... NO general Carlisle!
100

I predict 60.

 

We'll see who's right.