Sure thing. FYI Gabbard is a member of the House LGBT Marriage Equality Caucus, if that’s worth anything.
She can march in the Sydney Marcus Grad for all of me.
Your opinion of course.
Hillary Clinton only changed her position on LGBTQI only very recently, as a 60 something year old, so I hardly think one whose views have evolved from a 20 something yo with a voting record to match is going to have too many problems on that front.
Even Obama flipped flopped on SSM, won two terms.
1 Like
Lol.
I’d still argue George W Bush was worse, though admittedly he had 8 years to ■■■■ all over the place, while Trump’s only had 2 so far.
Trump’s administration has so far been too disorganised and chaotic to deliberately create bad policy, all his stuff-ups have been due to incompetence and neglect. In the long run it’ll count the same, but I still reckon Bush has his nose in front (and maybe Andrew Johnson could be a smoky…)
2 Likes
bobo
January 14, 2019, 3:08am
8718
FromOutside50:
AVanderScreamer:
At the end of the day - you only need 1 piece of evidence. Trump and his dimwitted son have provided that. So rather than going through the more than dozen team Trump members who had countless meetings with Russian operatives that led to the RNC changing only 1 policy measure (in favour of Russia) and led to promises of pro Russian policy once they had the WH (many put in place), let’s focus on 1 meeting.
Don Jnr meet responded to a Russian operative who wanted to help team Trump with illegally gain information on HRC in order to help the Trump campaign.
While initially they lied such a meeting took place (added suspicion) Trump in the end admitted that Don Jnr meet with Russians in order to get illegally gained information to beat HRC.
This is collusion, teamwork, synergy - whatever you want to call it, pure and simple. Just because they did it so blatantly and admitted it publicly doesn’t make it less so.
Almost anyone else in recent history in US politics would have gone straight to the authorities to report this crime - not team up with them.
Finally got the time to respond to this mate.
Your whole post focuses on the illegality of the Trump campaign getting dirt on HRC to help them with the election - I’ve just torpedoed this in two seconds, it’s sleazy but not criminal to get dirt on political opponents, if this were true the investigation would have been over in about 5 minutes. I should mention it’s also ■■■■■■, but not criminal to pay someone to go to Russia to get the dirt on Trump cough HRC cough .
All I’ve been hearing from “Russiagaters” the past two years is that Russia subverted the democratic mechanisms of the U.S electoral systems by way of colluding with the Trump campaign. All I ask is “show me the evidence”.
Let’s look at the indictments of Mueller so far
The most high profile, Manafort, has not been charged with anything to do with “collusion”, rather a raft of tax, bank and lobbying violations with his business in Ukraine. Manafort’s business in the Ukraine has mostly been lobbying the Ukrainians to side with the E.U, not Russia, an inconvenient fact that most somehow don’t acknowledge.
Next up is Cohen on perjury, who lied about the timelines about his business dealings RE: Trump Tower, a deal that went nowhere - again, nothing RE: collusion
Next up, Flynn, who was indicted on lying to the FBI after the election, again completely unrelated to the election, he lied about his role in trying to persuade the Russians to veto a UN measure on Isreal condemning Israeli settlements in Palestine
I would expect emails, wire taps and the like from Trump campaign officials to clearly show that they were working with either the GRU or other Russian Government officials with the intent to sabotage the U.S election to say with confidence that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to steal the 2016 general election.
Nothing that we’ve seen over the past two years really comes close to that.
Two quick points:
I don’t know about mostly but Manafort worked extensively with the overthrown Russia-friendly Party of Regions, then went on to work for and owe millions to the russian oligarch Deripaska. A debt he offered to make right while working for free on Trump’s campaign. His lawyer’s failed redactions show that he was caught lying about sharing information from within the campaign.
Flynn was, among other things, caught lying about discussing US sanctions with the Russian ambassador.
If, and it is one of many ifs, there was any quid pro quo happening then sanctions relief would have been a significant component for the Russians.
bobo:
Two quick points:
I don’t know about mostly but Manafort worked extensively with the overthrown Russia-friendly Party of Regions, then went on to work for and owe millions to the russian oligarch Deripaska. A debt he offered to make right while working for free on Trump’s campaign. His lawyer’s failed redactions show that he was caught lying about sharing information from within the campaign.
Manafort’s partner Rick Gates testified that he (Manafort) pushed his client, the then Ukrianian president Viktor Yanukovych to align with the EU and away from Russia. That’s a very odd position to take for a supposed Kremlin stooge.
Yes, and ultimately, Mueller recommended no jail time for either of those porkies from Flynn.
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see if that comes out of the investigation
Ants
January 14, 2019, 4:13am
8720
FromOutside50:
AVanderScreamer:
At the end of the day - you only need 1 piece of evidence. Trump and his dimwitted son have provided that. So rather than going through the more than dozen team Trump members who had countless meetings with Russian operatives that led to the RNC changing only 1 policy measure (in favour of Russia) and led to promises of pro Russian policy once they had the WH (many put in place), let’s focus on 1 meeting.
Don Jnr meet responded to a Russian operative who wanted to help team Trump with illegally gain information on HRC in order to help the Trump campaign.
While initially they lied such a meeting took place (added suspicion) Trump in the end admitted that Don Jnr meet with Russians in order to get illegally gained information to beat HRC.
This is collusion, teamwork, synergy - whatever you want to call it, pure and simple. Just because they did it so blatantly and admitted it publicly doesn’t make it less so.
Almost anyone else in recent history in US politics would have gone straight to the authorities to report this crime - not team up with them.
Finally got the time to respond to this mate.
Your whole post focuses on the illegality of the Trump campaign getting dirt on HRC to help them with the election - I’ve just torpedoed this in two seconds, it’s sleazy but not criminal to get dirt on political opponents , if this were true the investigation would have been over in about 5 minutes. I should mention it’s also ■■■■■■, but not criminal to pay someone to go to Russia to get the dirt on Trump cough HRC cough .
All I’ve been hearing from “Russiagaters” the past two years is that Russia subverted the democratic mechanisms of the U.S electoral systems by way of colluding with the Trump campaign. All I ask is “show me the evidence”.
Let’s look at the indictments of Mueller so far
The most high profile, Manafort, has not been charged with anything to do with “collusion”, rather a raft of tax, bank and lobbying violations with his business in Ukraine. Manafort’s business in the Ukraine has mostly been lobbying the Ukrainians to side with the E.U, not Russia, an inconvenient fact that most somehow don’t acknowledge.
Next up is Cohen on perjury, who lied about the timelines about his business dealings RE: Trump Tower, a deal that went nowhere - again, nothing RE: collusion
Next up, Flynn, who was indicted on lying to the FBI after the election, again completely unrelated to the election, he lied about his role in trying to persuade the Russians to veto a UN measure on Isreal condemning Israeli settlements in Palestine
I would expect emails, wire taps and the like from Trump campaign officials to clearly show that they were working with either the GRU or other Russian Government officials with the intent to sabotage the U.S election to say with confidence that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to steal the 2016 general election.
Nothing that we’ve seen over the past two years really comes close to that.
Sorry, but getting support during the election from foreigners is illegal. So there goes your argument.
bobo
January 14, 2019, 4:21am
8721
FromOutside50:
bobo:
Two quick points:
I don’t know about mostly but Manafort worked extensively with the overthrown Russia-friendly Party of Regions, then went on to work for and owe millions to the russian oligarch Deripaska. A debt he offered to make right while working for free on Trump’s campaign. His lawyer’s failed redactions show that he was caught lying about sharing information from within the campaign.
Manafort’s partner Rick Gates testified that he (Manafort) pushed his client, the then Ukrianian president Viktor Yanukovych to align with the EU and away from Russia. That’s a very odd position to take for a supposed Kremlin stooge.
Yes, and ultimately, Mueller recommended no jail time for either of those porkies from Flynn.
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see if that comes out of the investigation
Re: Manafort: I haven’t seen that testimony from Gates, though he was himself also caught lying to investigators about meetings involving Ukraine and Russia. Taken as true and taken as significant, it was before he got in massive debt to Deripaska, and thus was keen to pay off a man who would happily kill him and his family. Stooge would be too blunt a word, and too simple - the story of whatever happened with Manafort over his career is likely convoluted.
Re: Flynn: We weren’t talking about severity. I was responding to an omission. Though since you’ve raised it any punishment is likely to be mitigated by his co-operation.
I’m all for waiting and seeing, though the ledger charting the retreat through a long sequence of lies does not read well for Trump world.
Do you mean that blatant racist Andrew Jackson?
Unless he meant LBJ?? He wouldn’t be far off.
Nah, the Andrew Johnson who was Lincoln’s second VP and took over after Lincoln’s assassination, and used the high office to hamstring reconstruction and oppose black rights & citizenship at every turn and turn a big blind eye while the KKK and ex-confederates set up a rule of terror and Jim Crow laws that squandered the blood shed in the civil war and set up a regime based on racial inequality that would last until the Civil Rights movement and which still has echoes today.
2 Likes
Reboot
January 14, 2019, 4:56am
8725
LBJ was a very progressive President.
6 Likes
Points to Gryffindor for longest, most righteous and informative run on sentence today.
4 Likes
I think he has been more deliberative in cabinet and secretary positions to further his agenda.
FromOutside50:
AVanderScreamer:
At the end of the day - you only need 1 piece of evidence. Trump and his dimwitted son have provided that. So rather than going through the more than dozen team Trump members who had countless meetings with Russian operatives that led to the RNC changing only 1 policy measure (in favour of Russia) and led to promises of pro Russian policy once they had the WH (many put in place), let’s focus on 1 meeting.
Don Jnr meet responded to a Russian operative who wanted to help team Trump with illegally gain information on HRC in order to help the Trump campaign.
While initially they lied such a meeting took place (added suspicion) Trump in the end admitted that Don Jnr meet with Russians in order to get illegally gained information to beat HRC.
This is collusion, teamwork, synergy - whatever you want to call it, pure and simple. Just because they did it so blatantly and admitted it publicly doesn’t make it less so.
Almost anyone else in recent history in US politics would have gone straight to the authorities to report this crime - not team up with them.
Finally got the time to respond to this mate.
Your whole post focuses on the illegality of the Trump campaign getting dirt on HRC to help them with the election - I’ve just torpedoed this in two seconds, it’s sleazy but not criminal to get dirt on political opponents, if this were true the investigation would have been over in about 5 minutes. I should mention it’s also ■■■■■■, but not criminal to pay someone to go to Russia to get the dirt on Trump cough HRC cough .
All I’ve been hearing from “Russiagaters” the past two years is that Russia subverted the democratic mechanisms of the U.S electoral systems by way of colluding with the Trump campaign. All I ask is “show me the evidence”.
Let’s look at the indictments of Mueller so far
The most high profile, Manafort, has not been charged with anything to do with “collusion”, rather a raft of tax, bank and lobbying violations with his business in Ukraine. Manafort’s business in the Ukraine has mostly been lobbying the Ukrainians to side with the E.U, not Russia, an inconvenient fact that most somehow don’t acknowledge.
Next up is Cohen on perjury, who lied about the timelines about his business dealings RE: Trump Tower, a deal that went nowhere - again, nothing RE: collusion
Next up, Flynn, who was indicted on lying to the FBI after the election, again completely unrelated to the election, he lied about his role in trying to persuade the Russians to veto a UN measure on Isreal condemning Israeli settlements in Palestine
I would expect emails, wire taps and the like from Trump campaign officials to clearly show that they were working with either the GRU or other Russian Government officials with the intent to sabotage the U.S election to say with confidence that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to steal the 2016 general election.
Nothing that we’ve seen over the past two years really comes close to that.
Your torpedo is a bit of a dud.
@FromOutside50 congratulations on the birth of your kid btw
4 Likes
Guys, there’s actually already a wall (well, maybe a more a fence, that runs along the us mexico border. Just sayin…
1 Like
tinhillterror:
Guys, there’s actually already a wall (well, maybe a more a fence, that runs along the us mexico border. Just sayin…
Yep, and I’ve read that the parts where there isn’t some form of wall/fence, it is electronically monitored.