its gateway to synthetics, and synthetics, not even once.
it’s not a gateway anything anymore than any other substance than alcohol, soda stream bulbs or a few crushed up Sudfeds.
It may have been a stop on the path, but a gateway by very definition implies being on one side, in this case not ever going to want to try hard drugs ,and moving through the gateway (taking cannabis) suddenly brings you into a new place of doing hard drugs. So implies no prior reason to self medicate, no other mood/mind altering thing ever taken, and by having only cannabis suddenly menas you want to try everything else where you never had that tendancy once ever prior. Its old outdated thinking not supported by real facts.
As stated earlier in this thread the real way cannabis is a ‘gateway’ it’s through it being illegal, which means people buying it from dealers are more exposed to harder drugs being sold by same dealer than they would if they could go to a store and get it there.
Disagree - any number of police officers will tell you that being a regular marijuana user (and by regular I mean more than 3-4 times a week) means you are have a far higher probability of upgrading to ice.
Again, they are used in the same manner (bong v pipe), very similar users demographically and similar pricing.
Now you could use the same argument re the upgrade from alcohol to marijuana however the % of users who move from alcohol to marijuana is far less than the % of users who move from marijuana to ice.
I agree with you that there is no real linkage between marijuana and heroin or cocaine or speed.
hmm … a few thoughts…
Police are law enforcement, not drug addiction experts. So any anecdotal claim about what they tell you (if true I have no way of verifying that statement) must be acknowledged as being through the prism of enforcing laws. So if they bust an ice user they probably also bust any other substance they find that isn’t legal and totally ignore the beer cans they wade through to find the incriminating evidence.
This whole ‘move from’ claim doesn’t take into account how easy it is to get substance A over substance B as a young person. It’s easiest to get alcohol first, followed by cannabis, followed by hard drugs. Young people tend to move up into great and greater circles. They don’t have access to ice at the underage blue light disco as much as their mate with his few beers that his older brother bought him.
It’s a widely known fact that it’s main supported argument for being gateway drug is mainly due to its current legal status, because it is circulated, along with hard drugs, in the same criminal circles. Therefore people are exposed to hard drugs when buying cannabis than they would be were it not illegal. Surely this is not a point that can be argued against.
Now I have had 3 very very close mates have severe ice problems. We were all best school friends so I know this drug very well. One of them ended up in jail and other 2 had to hit rock bottom before seeking proper help. Thank god they are all ok today, I do know of other people in other circles that didn’t make it. RIP. All of them started drinking heavily before using ice and all had underlying personal issues that caused them to want to self-medicate very hard, compared to the rest of us, in the first place. It was a road they were always going to go down regardless of what they did or didn’t do ‘first’. Only one of them used cannabis before they went to ice. He stopped shortly after starting using ice as the effects of cannabis are almost diametrically opposed to ice. Ice isn’t a better or upgrade version of cannabis . It’s basically the opposite.
Prior to having kids I used cannabis 3-4 times per week for quite some time, never once had any inkling to use ice. It kills you and everything around you that you hold dear . Horrible insidious stuff. Cannabis was only a gateway for me to too many Tim Tams and trying to clock Mario brothers on Sega (TO NO AVAIL).
In regards to the vehicle used to get high being similar. Well yes but you can also smoke crack cocaine and even heroin in a pipe. There are limited ways to get a substance into your blood stream and inhalation is one of the most common and efficient of them. Correlation doesn’t equal causation. Most people I know that use cannabis smoke joints or make it into cookies/cake.
Young people in general more like to use drugs so a similar demographic of cannabis ice users doesn’t really prove any special cannabis/ice link.
Bottom line for me in the context of this thread topic of cannabis legalisation is that making it a controlled legal substance along the lines of alcohol access is that it will no doubt reduce peoples exposure to harder drugs. The ones that end up using ice would have got there anyway if they went alcohol > Cannabis > ice or alcohol > ice or cocaine > ice or whatever was first on that self-destructive road of abuse. Legalisation won’t lead to a sudden increase in cannabis use (it hasn’t overseas) and neither will it lead to an increase in ice use.
Anyhoo I think we’ve both reinforced our points enough to know what the other thinks and I don’t think either of us wants people to do more harm to themselves.
Think I need a joint , I mean a hit of the ice pipe… kidding…
You bought a Sega and then played Mario Bros?
You must have been high.
You can smoke whatever through a beer can. So…
pass the dutchie
and yeah… happy 420 day everyone.
What is this “Marijuana” stuff anyway …??
My drug history all started with smoking Bananas in year 8. God damn bananas the ultimate gateway drug.
Wizz fizz not even once. Fads too, (can go the boomer spell but i might get banned).
Never tried it, but heard it was the “Strings” in the Nanas that were supposed to work?
Do remember trying Tea Leaves, … and Coke and Aspro though.
And no, kids, … nothing happens but much illness.
Queenslanders are big on using the banana strings to mix with their weed, instead of mixing it with tobacco.
Tried it when I was about 17. It’s just awful, dreadfully awful.
Happy 420 Day all
For most of us drugs are not an issue, as we don’t have addictions. Same applies to gambling, sex, food, etc.
Many studies have been done on the causes of addictive behaviours, and why there is usually a drug of choice for each individual addict. The most plausible theory is that it is the chemistry of our brain that provokes the need for heroin or ice or booze or gambling or sex or food or whatever. Could be enhanced by environmental, societal or genetic factors, but generally believed you are born with a pre-disposition to be addicted to something. I think mine is Wives.
I am for an open society where almost everything is legal, so making MJ legal is fine. I smoked it and ate it during my youth with many friends, none who moved into heroin, coke, ice etc. Some have had issues with gambling and alcohol though.
I’m fairly sure I have a predisposition to becoming addicted to having sex with Victoria’s Secret models. This is obviously the only reason why I’ve resisted the temptation to this point. Its a constant & silent battle.
The reason you have resisted is fear of your Wife, and maybe because while heroin is available on most Richmond streets, these “secret model drugs” are much more difficult to procure.
Let me have a couple more seasons of selling a pound or two. After that I don’t care if the bottom drops out of the market.
Kochie highlighted a huge problem when it comes to outdated propaganda opposing legal weed
IT WAS hard not to cringe when Kochie shared his outdated views this week of why weed should stay illegal in Australia. Here is why he needs a refresh.
IT FEELS like every time a new drug law reform policy to decriminalise weed for adults in Australia is suggested, people lose their minds and immediately begin fear mongering about why letting people smoke marijuana legally will lead to anarchy in the streets.
It’s actually quite easy to see why this opinion is held given the disorder and mayhem seen in America after Alaska, California, Colorado, Maine, Massachusetts, Nevada, Oregon and Washington DC legalised recreational cannabis on January 1 this year.
Actually come to think of it, these US states have only seen a decrease in weed-related arrests, a stimulated economy from taxing marijuana and medicinal benefits for users.
If this is the case, why does Australia feel the need to peddle outdated anti-weed propaganda with pitchforks in hand?
My guess is a lack of education about the drug and an unwillingness to have an open mind when discussing whether it’s time to let adults — who already smoke weed anyway — to purchase it legally so they can stop dealing with criminals.
One only has to look at David Koch’s interview with Green’s leader Richard Di Natale on Sunrise earlier this week to see how embarrassingly stuck in the dark ages some Aussies are when it comes to the debate of legalisation.
The awkward interview, which Kochie appeared to research by watching the 1936 propaganda film Reefer Madness that explores the melodramatic events that ensue when high school students try marijuana, was nothing short of cringe-worthy and an embarrassment to those wanting to be heard in an educated and modern discussion.
“Most Australians would be going, look, you’ve been smoking marijuana,” Kochie said in response to Di Natale’s proposal.
Di Natale’s basis for legalisation was it would raise hundreds of millions of dollars in tax, would remove the power from the crime syndicates and would prevent innocent Aussies just wanting a smoke from obtaining damaging criminal records.
“We have got to get real about cannabis, nearly seven million Australians use it,” he said.
“The reality is that’s a choice that feeds big criminal syndicates, they are the ones that benefit from the current system.
“This is taking it out of the hands of criminals and putting it within a tightly controlled health framework.”
Kochie took offence to common sense and immediately reverted back to outdated “facts” about marijuana and even admitted that while Di Natale’s professional experience in the field as a drug and alcohol doctor made gave him more knowledgeable, he still wasn’t convinced.
To help break down the flaws in Kochie’s argument or to help sway those who are actually willing to have a discussion about the legalisation of weed, here’s some modern research.
ALCOHOL IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN WEED
Yes, Kochie was shocked when the Greens leader said weed was safer than booze. As Di Natale pointed out, people die from acute alcohol toxicity all the time, yet there have been zero recorded cases of overdosing on marijuana.
OK, sure you can’t die, but what about the other health risks that have been linked to weed over time?
In an attempt to sort fact from fiction, the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine completed the world’s most comprehensive study into marijuana last year.
After examining more than 10,000 scientific abstracts dating back to 1999, the extensive 395-page report unearthed more than 100 conclusions about the health effects of recreational and therapeutic cannabis use — many of which support arguments it should be legal.
“The evidence suggests that smoking cannabis does not increase the risk for certain cancers (ie. lung, head, and neck) in adults,” one of the findings read.
And while it did admit smoking cannabis on a regular basis is associated with chronic cough and phlegm production, it explained taking the drug orally will likely reduce these symptoms — legalisation of weed means you can buy eatables and not be forced to smoke.
The report also confirmed the many therapeutic effects of weed.
“In adults with chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting, oral cannabinoids are effective antiemetics,” the report read.
“In adults with chronic pain, patients who were treated with cannabis or cannabinoids are more likely to experience a clinically significant reduction in pain symptoms.
“In adults with multiple sclerosis (MS)-related spasticity, short-term use of oral cannabinoids improves patient reported spasticity symptoms.”
When looking at cannabis use and mental health, the findings offer mixed results.
“Cannabis use is likely to increase the risk of developing schizophrenia and other psychoses; the higher the use the greater the risk,” the report read.
However, it added that a history of cannabis use in individuals with schizophrenia and other psychoses may be “linked to better performance on learning and memory tasks”.
The research found smoking weed did not appear to increase the likelihood of developing depression, anxiety or PTSD, and heavy cannabis smokers more likely to talk about their thoughts of suicide than non-users.
WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN
One of the most common arguments with the legalisation of weed is that more children will have access to the drug at a young age.
These people seem to forget that it will be treated with the same age restrictions used for the sale of alcohol — plus there’s nothing stopping a 15-year-old who wants to smoke pot from buying it off the street already.
But let’s forget the age restrictions for a minute and take a look at places that have legalised marijuana and how this has impacted underage use.
As it turns out, fewer teenagers are using cannabis in Colorado since the state’s tightly regulated legal market launched at the start of 2014.
According to the annual National Survey on Drug Use and Health, marijuana use by kids between 12 and 17 had dropped 11 per cent from year prior and 12.5 per cent from the previous two years in Colorado.
This drop is attributed to the amount of money that Colorado has poured into awareness and education programs, plus making it harder to obtain by removing it from the black market.
IT CAN’T BE WORTH THAT MUCH TO THE ECONOMY
According to marijuana industry analyst Tom Adams, the industry in the US took in nearly $AU11.7 billion in sales in 2017 — equivalent to the entire snack bar industry.
But with weed now legal in a number of US states, Adams estimates that national marijuana sales will rise to $AU14.3 billion in 2018, and to $AU27.4 billion in 2021.
State senator from Nevada Tick Segerblom has also praised the legalisation of weed, with the state reaping more than $A36 million in tax revenue since recreational sales started.
“It’s a great thing because the money was already being spent [when it was illegal] it’s just now being taxed,” he told CNN. “And cops don’t have to waste their time arresting users.”
Earlier research conducted by the Institute of Cannabis Research at Colorado State University found the legalisation of weed raked in $AU74 million in tax in 2016, with $AU29 million of that put toward marijuana-related programs to educate users.
Different types of marijuana sit on display at a marijuana dispensary, with money made from sales
DOES WEED MAKE YOU LAZY?
Recent times have shown a huge surge in people smoking weed to help athletic performance as it deepens concentration, increases tissue oxygenation, and decreases muscle spasms before, during and after exercise.
Ultra-endurance athlete Avery Collins, who runs 240km per week, said training stoned helps him achieve flow quicker as the “runner’s high” acts upon the same receptors that receive the THC in marijuana.
“I use it as a way to intensify and enhance the run. It makes the longevity of the runner’s high last longer because technically you’re already high,” he told Motherboard.
Cannabis has long been accredited with anti-inflammatory properties and Mr Collins said he also smokes weed for the pain relief after gruelling training sessions.
“I’d be lying if I said [cannabis] doesn’t help soothe my muscles,” he added.
It’s not just runners who benefit either, with UFC commentator/stand-up comedian/podcaster Joe Rogan talking about its benefits for fighters.
“I think it (marijuana) is a performance-enhancing drug. If it wasn’t, a huge majority of jiu-jitsu guys wouldn’t be using it before they train,” he said on The MMA Hour. “They don’t do it because it hurts them; they do it because it helps them.”
He also claimed to have seen the benefits first-hand.
“I like to smoke pot and work out,” he said. “Getting high and working out is one of the least talked about and least appreciated pleasures of fitness.”
HOW AUSTRALIA CURRENTLY SITS WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD
Our country is slowly taking steps to change its stance on weed, with Victoria becoming the first state to legalise marijuana for young children suffering from epilepsy, while NSW also allows use for patients suffering from serious illnesses such as cancer or multiple sclerosis.
Queensland’s laws are the most flexible in the country, which grant patients of any age or suffering from a range of illnesses access to medicinal cannabis products.
Tasmania allows medical cannabis in limited circumstances where conventional treatment has been unsuccessful, as does Western Australia, South Australia, the NT and the ACT.
While the use of medical marijuana is a step in the right direction, we also need to be talking about legalising it for recreational use, which would bring us on par with a number of countries across the world.
In addition to the earlier mentioned US States, Austria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Belize, Brazil, Cambodia, Colombia, Costa Rica, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Ecuador, Estonia, Greece, parts of India, Italy, Jamaica, Luzembourg, Malta, Mexico, Myanmar, Netherlands, Norway, Paraguay, Peru, Portugal, Russia, Solvenia, Spain, Switzerland, Ukraine and Uruguay all have made recreational weed use legal or have decriminalised it — and the world hasn’t ended yet.
So maybe Kochie just needs to understand that letting adults enjoy a cheeky toke or two is not going to lead to the end of the world.
My favourite argument against is that it will lead to an increase in crime.
Because, y’know, lots of people will suddenly start to commit crime in order to go and buy something from a shop. I think. I dunno.
How does that mental gymnastic work? not like people that don’t smoke are suddenly gonna go in droves to start… the people that already do will now be doing it legally…