Some gutsy kicks through the middle, versus some shocking misses in front of goal = game.
Jeez some of those kicks inboard opening up the ground were fantastic.
I prefer him to Myers also - Myers has only ever had 6-7 very good games in 6-7 seasonsYou seem confused as to who David Myers is. He's the guy in No 23, big unit, cannon of a left leg.
Also, can people stop calling him Poppy pls? ■■■■■ me.
Myers is no where near a certainty IMO. I think we should be pumping games into LangfordI stopped reading there. He needs to go back to VFL and work on his decision making. Never looks like he knows what he should do.
Part of our problem. Hawthorn don’t 'pump games into people." Haven’t for years. They make their players earn a senior game via the VFL. Often for three or more years. And use the VFL to improve their players.
I never see the VFL, so is there a disconnect between the way the VFL and AFL sides play?This whole “Hawthorn make their kids play in the VFL for years…until they are ready” is nonsense.
The young players stay in the VFL team, not due to some Mr Miyagi “until they are ready” or they earn their spot philosophy, rather it is for a very simple reason - the Hawthorn team has been pretty friggen good for the past 8 years. The young players aren’t being held back for their development it’s just that they can’t crack into a winning side full of champions in just about every position.
At the other end of the scale it’s easier for crappier teams to blood young players - and some have to be necessity.
It’s also easier for a young player to come in and play a role and be directed how to play by champions than one thrown to the wolves with no on field support.
You look like a champion flying for marks with Breus, Rioli and Poppy mopping up. Do that for us and the ball goes down the other end at lightning pace.
Just like Peverill did when he played his first game with the experience and talent he had around him. Back then - remember? - Hawthorn were ■■■■.
Credit where its due - I am not a Goddard fan by any stretch of the imagination, but he was pretty awesome tonight.
His kicking was back to its best…some pin point passes about 1 metre off the ground
I’m worried about Richmond, their list is in the best shape it’s been in for half a decade…
It certainly was an exciting game and one they really should have won it, but, as we’ve all commented, it was their kicking for goal that lost it. And ironically, St. Kilda kicked very accurately after their inaccuracy of the previous week.
There were a lot of positives. Things I liked was the ongoing good form of Fantasia. I think we can safely say we have a good small
forward who will continue to kick goals; and should kick many more than he does, but for inaccuracy. He is as bad as Joey. The
good thing about Daniher is that he is now a very competitive player and doesn’t only rely on his marking. I’m resigned to the fact that
he’s likely to remain less than a 50 percenter in shooting for goal, so get him further out. He takes more marks around the ground than
close to goal.
Loved Walla on the forward line. He brings others into the game, setting up goals.
McKernan did alright when he was on the ball, but he doesn’t appear to be a forward. Merrett continues to get better, and Hams is
improving. I think McKenna will also if given a run of games. His disposal is excellent.
This form suggests they may be able to mix it with Richmond, especially with Leunberger and Zaharakis returning.
A game that should give everyone at the club plenty of heart and plenty to think about.
Just watching the replay.......I think I just got a Tipung-woody.He makes the ladies jive
As they can’t handle his size
Can’t even handle the TIPPA
Swans have routinely brought kids in over the years and given them responsibility. This year it’s been papley, Hewitt, Mills, Jones and more recently rose and alir. Heeney/lloyd were fast tracked last year. Rampe was played consistently early on. ditto Cunningham though he has struggled for games this year. All those guys carried their weight on field. Those who didn’t quite contribute enough have remained on the periphery - younger Richards and Jake spring to mind
Agreed. Kicked ourselves out of it. Joe should eat that last kick up with a spoon and Brown's miss was a disgrace.Fanta missed a couple he should have nailed as well. Even Tippa missed that easy one running into an open goal. Our poor goal kicking is a widespread issue unfortunately.
I reckon this is partly a fitness issue - heavy legs from high intensity running, while Joe has both that and mental issues. Richo talked lots about lactic acid build up in his legs from running lots. Reiwoldt was terribly inaccurate for a long time too. Fitness and hardness in legs very important.
When we turn ball over like we do, that means way more running - firstly running to get into receiving position then immediately having to find man and run like hell other way - perhaps 20% more (a guess)
Hawks do not have same issue, nor Swans, IMO because of reduced skill related turnovers.
I reckon they ought to have different drills at training - every time someone misses from inside 50, everyone does ten push ups, or has to sprint 50 metres. That way forwards will get to feel what their misses do to entire team and morale. Every time a turnover, same.
Just finished the first half which I missed live.
- McKenna was actually decent IMO. He was pretty non-prominent in the second half but I assumed that he was missing in the first half based on that. He wasn’t. He did most things right but made 3 mistakes which all hurt us. Incidentally all three of them were missed tackles (the first one was more of a case of losing his feet). It was bizarre. He didn’t tackle weakly or have his tackles slip. He just chose not to tackle. If he’s in D50 he needs to take a leaf out of Patty’s book and hit the tackle hard straight through the hips. Wasn’t sensational but certainly stays in the side IMO.
- Hams was similar in that he was “above average” in the 2nd half when I watched but thankfully was above that in the first. He’s really building. As I said I hope he continues on the trajectory because if he ends up a real option by year’s end it will be huge.
- Someone said McKernan must have done something to the Umps. I agree with that. 2 or 3 50/50 calls went against him and hurt him. That said he wasn’t great but I’d be keeping him in.
- I’m with Ivan on Langford. His disposal by hand and foot wasn’t great but he gets amongst it and had good hands. I see a lot of tools there and he needs to grow in the senior side. Myers’ 3 years may be seen as very generous soon.
- Lav growing, will be better for the run.
- WTF is with the “east west”? Surely east/west is in relation to the mark? ie the line of the mark, take the perpendicular of that and that is “east west” in other words don’t arc around to chop off the angle? If someone marks in the pocket and they are on an 80 degree angle you can “east/west” towards the centre of the ground… you don’t “east west” to the other wing, walking backwards on the mark? WTF was that about.
- Fk me our goal kicking was dire and a couple of easy shots cost us the game in the end.
Goddard had an excellent game. Eclipsed by Zerrett though.Langford, still worry about his brain, but have hope.
Langford seems to panic a lot with ball in hand.
YOU SEEM TO PANIC A LOT WITH BALL IN HAND!!
He would have made an awesome joker
YOU WOULD HAVE MADE AN AWESOME JOKER!!
i wanted to be bane but this dank fellow has gone strangely quiet
Myers is no where near a certainty IMO. I think we should be pumping games into LangfordI stopped reading there. He needs to go back to VFL and work on his decision making. Never looks like he knows what he should do.
Part of our problem. Hawthorn don’t 'pump games into people." Haven’t for years. They make their players earn a senior game via the VFL. Often for three or more years. And use the VFL to improve their players.
I never see the VFL, so is there a disconnect between the way the VFL and AFL sides play?This whole “Hawthorn make their kids play in the VFL for years…until they are ready” is nonsense.
The young players stay in the VFL team, not due to some Mr Miyagi “until they are ready” or they earn their spot philosophy, rather it is for a very simple reason - the Hawthorn team has been pretty friggen good for the past 8 years. The young players aren’t being held back for their development it’s just that they can’t crack into a winning side full of champions in just about every position.
At the other end of the scale it’s easier for crappier teams to blood young players - and some have to be necessity.
I understand that. Yet we have people saying we should give games to young kids at the expense of others that might be performing better.
People saying drop Cooney or Kelly and bring in someon that’s doing OK in the VFL. I think we should play our best side and until people in the VFL prove they are worthy of taking a spot then they stay where they are.
I don’t care about “top ups” or not. As far as I am concerned they are all EFC players this year and we should field the best team available to us. Not the one that provides the best development.
I thought that seemed to be exactly what we were already doing. Despite our limited list, guys who we might like to see or feel are due a go haven’t been getting in till there’s a spot or they string together a few good consistent weeks in the VFL to fight their way in.
funny how after so many big losses this kinda felt like a win!
Our inaccuracy was stupid, but not all of misses meant that much to result. eg After Joe’s mark and big miss ball stayed forward for Zerret to kick goal. Fanta’s misses in 3rd and 4th, Brown’s in 4th were poor, maybe more a sign of heavy legs after working super hard - certainly Joe in 3rd was knackered and went for cross the body shot than straight drop punt.
Given how many turnovers we gave away (and got back often), and still being in it, our endeavour should have given us an easy win.
Thought everyone played well, a weird thing to say when we lost.
Thought Joe was superb, misses aside, and long for day when he gets accuracy sorted and kicks everything within 60. This would have been 7-8 goal game if he kicked straight and had confidence. His contest near goal that gave Tippa the goal was excellent, finally staying on feet. I will be upset if that mark was not MOY. Saints defence not elite, so he got off chain, got runs at packs etc. Speed of entry helped him, and Tippa’s polish - that perfect kick to Joe on square was awesome, mind you better defender may not let him run around like that.
Tippa has such long kick on him, confident at 50 metres out.
Zerret was awesome again. He links, gets hard ball, tackles, finishes, runs receives, total package.
Good signs that people are starting to know where the help is, where the help is needed, so running chains getting into place.
There will be a few boys who will feel they lost us/them the game - Parrish’s poor kick, Brown, Joe, Fanta, Mackernan who stopped and appealed for mark that was snapped up and taken for goal, that he ought to have neutralised.
Happy Halms is showing stuff - Hird really liked him, and tho he is a bit small in a smaller side he is valuable.
I like us against Richmond.
Myers is no where near a certainty IMO. I think we should be pumping games into LangfordI stopped reading there. He needs to go back to VFL and work on his decision making. Never looks like he knows what he should do.
Part of our problem. Hawthorn don’t 'pump games into people." Haven’t for years. They make their players earn a senior game via the VFL. Often for three or more years. And use the VFL to improve their players.
I never see the VFL, so is there a disconnect between the way the VFL and AFL sides play?This whole “Hawthorn make their kids play in the VFL for years…until they are ready” is nonsense.
The young players stay in the VFL team, not due to some Mr Miyagi “until they are ready” or they earn their spot philosophy, rather it is for a very simple reason - the Hawthorn team has been pretty friggen good for the past 8 years. The young players aren’t being held back for their development it’s just that they can’t crack into a winning side full of champions in just about every position.
At the other end of the scale it’s easier for crappier teams to blood young players - and some have to be necessity.
It’s also easier for a young player to come in and play a role and be directed how to play by champions than one thrown to the wolves with no on field support.
You look like a champion flying for marks with Breus, Rioli and Poppy mopping up. Do that for us and the ball goes down the other end at lightning pace.
Myers is no where near a certainty IMO. I think we should be pumping games into LangfordI stopped reading there. He needs to go back to VFL and work on his decision making. Never looks like he knows what he should do.
Part of our problem. Hawthorn don’t 'pump games into people." Haven’t for years. They make their players earn a senior game via the VFL. Often for three or more years. And use the VFL to improve their players.
I never see the VFL, so is there a disconnect between the way the VFL and AFL sides play?
You are right. Hawks, and the Cats and Swans, do not pump games into players. Thing is with successful sides is that they are hard to break into (re Sicily at Hawks) so new guys get to spend 1-2 years in twos learning before they come into firsts.
In the great Swans years nobody got injured so they only played 26-7 players all year, so newbies never got shot, and spend years honing skills and craft. So many times we have seen Cats choose new guy who has been in system 2-3 years and performs right away. Ditto Hawks, while they and Swans just have huge culture and system that people slot into and hopefully Worsfold creates.
For us we play newbies asap cause trying to climb ladder, trying to find players - top teams already have the known players and build depth.
Langford looks confused often cause there is not (yet) an immediately obvious option, and under selection pressure does not want to mess up. I prefer him to Myers also - Myers has only ever had 6-7 very good games in 6-7 seasons (injured also I know), mostly just serviceable, an interchangeable big body.
Teams are not just individuals and mostly people only do as well as the collective. If Langford knows that player x will be running past at speed into space then he will dish off. If x times run a bit early or late, or does not know if Langford will be ready, or has opponent on his heels, or if others in front of ball are not dangerous and their opponent can drop off and fill space, blocking the run, then system fails.
I was also unaware that Connor was playing.
Myers is no where near a certainty IMO. I think we should be pumping games into LangfordI stopped reading there. He needs to go back to VFL and work on his decision making. Never looks like he knows what he should do.
Part of our problem. Hawthorn don’t 'pump games into people." Haven’t for years. They make their players earn a senior game via the VFL. Often for three or more years. And use the VFL to improve their players.
I never see the VFL, so is there a disconnect between the way the VFL and AFL sides play?This whole “Hawthorn make their kids play in the VFL for years…until they are ready” is nonsense.
The young players stay in the VFL team, not due to some Mr Miyagi “until they are ready” or they earn their spot philosophy, rather it is for a very simple reason - the Hawthorn team has been pretty friggen good for the past 8 years. The young players aren’t being held back for their development it’s just that they can’t crack into a winning side full of champions in just about every position.
At the other end of the scale it’s easier for crappier teams to blood young players - and some have to be necessity.
I understand that. Yet we have people saying we should give games to young kids at the expense of others that might be performing better.
People saying drop Cooney or Kelly and bring in someon that’s doing OK in the VFL. I think we should play our best side and until people in the VFL prove they are worthy of taking a spot then they stay where they are.
I don’t care about “top ups” or not. As far as I am concerned they are all EFC players this year and we should field the best team available to us. Not the one that provides the best development.
Just watching the replay.......I think I just got a Tipung-woody.
He makes the ladies jive
As they can’t handle his size
Myers is no where near a certainty IMO. I think we should be pumping games into LangfordI stopped reading there. He needs to go back to VFL and work on his decision making. Never looks like he knows what he should do.
Part of our problem. Hawthorn don’t 'pump games into people." Haven’t for years. They make their players earn a senior game via the VFL. Often for three or more years. And use the VFL to improve their players.
I never see the VFL, so is there a disconnect between the way the VFL and AFL sides play?
This whole “Hawthorn make their kids play in the VFL for years…until they are ready” is nonsense.
The young players stay in the VFL team, not due to some Mr Miyagi “until they are ready” or they earn their spot philosophy, rather it is for a very simple reason - the Hawthorn team has been pretty friggen good for the past 8 years. The young players aren’t being held back for their development it’s just that they can’t crack into a winning side full of champions in just about every position.
At the other end of the scale it’s easier for crappier teams to blood young players - and some have to be necessity.
Myers is no where near a certainty IMO. I think we should be pumping games into LangfordI stopped reading there. He needs to go back to VFL and work on his decision making. Never looks like he knows what he should do.
Part of our problem. Hawthorn don’t 'pump games into people." Haven’t for years. They make their players earn a senior game via the VFL. Often for three or more years. And use the VFL to improve their players.
I never see the VFL, so is there a disconnect between the way the VFL and AFL sides play?I understand your point and it may apply to some on our list but …
Langford more than earned his spot on vfl form, he was completely dominant in the vfl and made a solid contribution last night. As long as he makes that sort of contribution he is worth his place in the side.
If he averages 10 touches and 2 tackles a game at senior level compared to say the 22 and 5 or so we could get from Myers sure drop him back but on last nights form id play him ahead of Myers because he had much more upside and more than held his own.
By contrast Connor would want to be doing a hell for a lot more than he did last night off half back before I started saying pump games into him ahead of bags/demps /hibb.
Fwiw I think Connor can make and it would not surprise to see him push past Dempsey and hibb in the not too distant future but he isn’t there yet.
Yes I see what you are saying.
I think I am asking a different question.
Do we use the VFL as training and development for the afl? Do we play the same game plan and style? Are players played in the same position?
I don’t see VFL so don’t have any idea.
I know they have a different coach but are they all singing from the same playbook, or is it a completely separate thing with a different style?