Sam Newman

Football Discussion Non Essendon Stuff
61

 

 

 

I'm not really fussed if a sixty-eight year-old bloke isn't comfortable with open homosexuality.

Happy that he can feel he can say that.

 

I don't share or agree with his views, but I don't need to demean and label him over them either.

If we can't demean and label people guilty of demeaning and labeling, who can we demean and label?

 

 

We can accept they were brought up in a different time with different values, in Sam's case Australia's ultra-conservative 50s.

I sometimes wonder what views of mine will be socially offensive by the time I'm Sam's age.

 

I don't buy that.  He hasn't been asleep since the 50's.  People that hold on to these bigoted views under the guise of "oh they don't know any better" is nonsense.

 

 

It's not a matter of not knowing any better.

If he calls public homosexual displays of affection gratuitous, that's a personal opinion on social mores.

I heard Leigh Matthews say he doesn't hold with women smoking in a public place.

Okay, not really with him there, but there's no call to label him a misogynist.

62

 

Problem is the media, replaying it over and over saying how great it is...


It is a great story and I hope that they replay it many more times. People need to see footage like this. It normalises gay relationships, which is exactly what bigots with an anti-homosexual agenda want to avoid.

 

 

 

Just about every TV show has a token gay character/couple, how much more normalising do we need.

63

 

 

Problem is the media, replaying it over and over saying how great it is...


It is a great story and I hope that they replay it many more times. People need to see footage like this. It normalises gay relationships, which is exactly what bigots with an anti-homosexual agenda want to avoid.

 

 

 

Just about every TV show has a token gay character/couple, how much more normalising do we need.

 

 

One could argue we need enough to make a character in a TV show not defined by their sexuality.

64

 

 

 

Problem is the media, replaying it over and over saying how great it is...


It is a great story and I hope that they replay it many more times. People need to see footage like this. It normalises gay relationships, which is exactly what bigots with an anti-homosexual agenda want to avoid.

 

 

 

Just about every TV show has a token gay character/couple, how much more normalising do we need.

 

 

One could argue we need enough to make a character in a TV show not defined by their sexuality.

 

Yeah pretty much. We need to keep normalising it until it's not considered abnormal.

 

He kissed his partner on what is probably the most life-defining moment he'll experience. In the leadup to the draft there was all sorts of media about his sexuality, NOT driven by him. He did what most people in his situation would have done and he shouldn't have to change that just because it was going to create a media storm.

65

This is a fascinating and revealing discussion. In actual fact a lot of this discussion echoes Brandis' comments about our right to be a bigot.

 

For the record I think it's great that an openly gay guy like Sam could get drafted to the NFL. I'd love for the AFL to have a story like that, and if an Essendon player came out admitting he was gay I'd feel nothing but pride in him for his courage. It's high time we progressed to that point, because you can be certain there a plenty of tough, high-profile footballers out there who are gay.

 

I'm not surprised at the commentary generated by Sam kissing his partner in celebration, but it's awfully hypocritical given that a heterosexual kiss is celebrated.

 

Having said all that Sam Newman is entitled to his opinion. It would be a very dull world if we all thought and said the same. There's a fine line though between what is acceptable, and what isn't - which is what most of the recent furore over changes to the racial discrimination act were about.

 

I have to say that while I'm liberal in values and philosophy, the truth is that I'd rather not watch a couple of guys kissing. Now that's my problem, not a judgement on them. I'm old school heterosexual, but that doesn't preclude me from having more liberated views.

 

I'm with Wim on this. Sam Newman is a relic of his generation. That doesn't excuse his views - if they need excuse, but nor does it invalidate it. I can't agree with Newman, but in the scale of things I don't know that it's so bad (I didn't see it btw, so not a precisely informed opinion). 

 

Have to be very careful with these things because genuine offence can be caused, and in ways we may not ever understand. It's right that as a society we have moved on, and that we have conventions that protect from discrimination (notwithstanding the Brandis' of this world). At the same time I don't know that I want to live in a world where people are afraid of expressing an opinion.

 

I like the fact that Newman is the unreconstructed, opinionated man he is unafraid of speaking his opinion. He's unafraid to go against the mainstream, to speak what he thinks rather than what perhaps he should. That's part of his role on the show, to be outspoken, to court controversy, to manufacture theatre. He does it well. There's a lot he's done in the past I've abhorred, but in this case I'm limited to simply disagreeing with him. 

66

 

 

I'm not really fussed if a sixty-eight year-old bloke isn't comfortable with open homosexuality.

Happy that he can feel he can say that.

 

I don't share or agree with his views, but I don't need to demean and label him over them either.

If we can't demean and label people guilty of demeaning and labeling, who can we demean and label?

 

 

We can accept they were brought up in a different time with different values, in Sam's case Australia's ultra-conservative 50s.

I sometimes wonder what views of mine will be socially offensive by the time I'm Sam's age.

 

Well I am the same age as Sam Newman and I have no trouble labelling him a dangerous bigot. It's attitudes like his, particularly in the public arena, that contribute to the alienation and self-loathing of young gay people. It is cowardly to attack on television people who just happen to love someone that he doesn't approve of. The arrogance is loathsome. Why do you think so many people remain 'in the closet'? They are scared of bullies like Sam Newman.

67

 

The point of my post wasn’t about Michael Sam kissing his boyfriend, it was more about Sam actually saying something on national television that he personally didn’t like and he wasn’t afraid to say what he thought about it which is a rarity in today’s society when it comes to “sensitive” issues such as racism or homosexuality.
 
As someone stated above, it is good that there is someone in the media or public eye who will say what they think rather than what they think they should say. Which was more the point I was getting at.


Should holocaust deniers also get a pat on the back for being “brave” enough to say what they think?
68

 

The point of my post wasn't about Michael Sam kissing his boyfriend, it was more about Sam actually saying something on national television that he personally didn't like and he wasn't afraid to say what he thought about it which is a rarity in today's society when it comes to "sensitive" issues such as racism or homosexuality.
 
As someone stated above, it is good that there is someone in the media or public eye who will say what they think rather than what they think they should say. Which was more the point I was getting at.


Should holocaust deniers also get a pat on the back for being "brave" enough to say what they think?

 

I think it's funny that someones right to comment in a negative way about two guys kissing without repercussions somehow trumps the right of two guys to kiss without repercussions. Sam should be allowed to comment on what those guys did but commenting on Sam doing so is crossing a line?

69

 

The point of my post wasn’t about Michael Sam kissing his boyfriend, it was more about Sam actually saying something on national television that he personally didn’t like and he wasn’t afraid to say what he thought about it which is a rarity in today’s society when it comes to “sensitive” issues such as racism or homosexuality.
 
As someone stated above, it is good that there is someone in the media or public eye who will say what they think rather than what they think they should say. Which was more the point I was getting at.


Should holocaust deniers also get a pat on the back for being “brave” enough to say what they think?
I think it’s funny that someones right to comment in a negative way about two guys kissing without repercussions somehow trumps the right of two guys to kiss without repercussions. Sam should be allowed to comment on what those guys did but commenting on Sam doing so is crossing a line?

I don’t think we should legislate against bigots saying what they think. Get them out in the open I say so they can be exposed for what they are. My comment was about posters applauding Newman for having the guts to speak out on the issue. I didn’t think it was particularly gutsy at all.
70

 


The point of my post wasn't about Michael Sam kissing his boyfriend, it was more about Sam actually saying something on national television that he personally didn't like and he wasn't afraid to say what he thought about it which is a rarity in today's society when it comes to "sensitive" issues such as racism or homosexuality.
 
As someone stated above, it is good that there is someone in the media or public eye who will say what they think rather than what they think they should say. Which was more the point I was getting at.


Should holocaust deniers also get a pat on the back for being "brave" enough to say what they think?

 

should keyboard warriors get a pat on the back for attacking high profile individuals on internet forums?

71

 

 

 

The point of my post wasn't about Michael Sam kissing his boyfriend, it was more about Sam actually saying something on national television that he personally didn't like and he wasn't afraid to say what he thought about it which is a rarity in today's society when it comes to "sensitive" issues such as racism or homosexuality.
 
As someone stated above, it is good that there is someone in the media or public eye who will say what they think rather than what they think they should say. Which was more the point I was getting at.


Should holocaust deniers also get a pat on the back for being "brave" enough to say what they think?

 

I think it's funny that someones right to comment in a negative way about two guys kissing without repercussions somehow trumps the right of two guys to kiss without repercussions. Sam should be allowed to comment on what those guys did but commenting on Sam doing so is crossing a line?

 


I don't think we should legislate against bigots saying what they think. Get them out in the open I say so they can be exposed for what theya are. My comment was about posters applauding Newman for having the guts to speak out on the issue. I didn't think it was particularly gutsy at all.

 

My objection, which wasn't to you - i was agreeing with you - was that I have no problem with him being allowed to say it, but I have a massive problem with people saying we can't call him out for it. I don't understand how the right to be non-PC trumps the right to tell people they are ■■■■■■■■. Or bigots. Pot-ay-to, pot-ah-to.

72

 


 

 

The point of my post wasn't about Michael Sam kissing his boyfriend, it was more about Sam actually saying something on national television that he personally didn't like and he wasn't afraid to say what he thought about it which is a rarity in today's society when it comes to "sensitive" issues such as racism or homosexuality.
 
As someone stated above, it is good that there is someone in the media or public eye who will say what they think rather than what they think they should say. Which was more the point I was getting at.


Should holocaust deniers also get a pat on the back for being "brave" enough to say what they think?

 

I think it's funny that someones right to comment in a negative way about two guys kissing without repercussions somehow trumps the right of two guys to kiss without repercussions. Sam should be allowed to comment on what those guys did but commenting on Sam doing so is crossing a line?

 


I don't think we should legislate against bigots saying what they think. Get them out in the open I say so they can be exposed for what they are. My comment was about posters applauding Newman for having the guts to speak out on the issue. I didn't think it was particularly gutsy at all.

 

I think the you are taking the original poster out of context.

It is refreshing to see someone putting their own views on topics rather than the media driven rhetoric & politically correct stuff.  Not necessarily just related to this topic, but other topics as well.

73

The man is a legend and always sheds a good view on topics which often gets neglected by others.

74

 

The point of my post wasn’t about Michael Sam kissing his boyfriend, it was more about Sam actually saying something on national television that he personally didn’t like and he wasn’t afraid to say what he thought about it which is a rarity in today’s society when it comes to “sensitive” issues such as racism or homosexuality.
 
As someone stated above, it is good that there is someone in the media or public eye who will say what they think rather than what they think they should say. Which was more the point I was getting at.


Should holocaust deniers also get a pat on the back for being “brave” enough to say what they think?
I think it’s funny that someones right to comment in a negative way about two guys kissing without repercussions somehow trumps the right of two guys to kiss without repercussions. Sam should be allowed to comment on what those guys did but commenting on Sam doing so is crossing a line?

I don’t think we should legislate against bigots saying what they think. Get them out in the open I say so they can be exposed for what theya are. My comment was about posters applauding Newman for having the guts to speak out on the issue. I didn’t think it was particularly gutsy at all.
My objection, which wasn’t to you - i was agreeing with you - was that I have no problem with him being allowed to say it, but I have a massive problem with people saying we can’t call him out for it. I don’t understand how the right to be non-PC trumps the right to tell people they are ■■■■■■■■. Or bigots. Pot-ay-to, pot-ah-to.

We are in violent agreement.
75

 

The point of my post wasn’t about Michael Sam kissing his boyfriend, it was more about Sam actually saying something on national television that he personally didn’t like and he wasn’t afraid to say what he thought about it which is a rarity in today’s society when it comes to “sensitive” issues such as racism or homosexuality.
 
As someone stated above, it is good that there is someone in the media or public eye who will say what they think rather than what they think they should say. Which was more the point I was getting at.


Should holocaust deniers also get a pat on the back for being “brave” enough to say what they think?
should keyboard warriors get a pat on the back for attacking high profile individuals on internet forums?

Calling a bigot a bigot deserves a HJ at the very least IMO.
76

 

 

 

The point of my post wasn't about Michael Sam kissing his boyfriend, it was more about Sam actually saying something on national television that he personally didn't like and he wasn't afraid to say what he thought about it which is a rarity in today's society when it comes to "sensitive" issues such as racism or homosexuality.
 
As someone stated above, it is good that there is someone in the media or public eye who will say what they think rather than what they think they should say. Which was more the point I was getting at.


Should holocaust deniers also get a pat on the back for being "brave" enough to say what they think?

 

should keyboard warriors get a pat on the back for attacking high profile individuals on internet forums?

 


Calling a bigot a bigot deserves a HJ at the very least IMO.

 

handjob?

77

 

The point of my post wasn’t about Michael Sam kissing his boyfriend, it was more about Sam actually saying something on national television that he personally didn’t like and he wasn’t afraid to say what he thought about it which is a rarity in today’s society when it comes to “sensitive” issues such as racism or homosexuality.
 
As someone stated above, it is good that there is someone in the media or public eye who will say what they think rather than what they think they should say. Which was more the point I was getting at.


Should holocaust deniers also get a pat on the back for being “brave” enough to say what they think?
should keyboard warriors get a pat on the back for attacking high profile individuals on internet forums?

Calling a bigot a bigot deserves a HJ at the very least IMO.
handjob?

Correct. Or Hungry Jacks if I’m feeling hung over.
78

 


Correct. Or Hungry Jacks if I'm feeling hung over.

 

BOTH if you're hungover...

79

To be fair to Sam, I don’t think he was saying he was against homosexuals, it was merely that it appeared or in his opinion was ‘staged’ for the cameras, possibly to get the media attention.

He might be right, but that’s how American media works, there’s always one or two things which they have to symbolise with an event or tragedy. But maybe they needed to come out and do this for their own benefit, to take control of any whispers or innuendo. And worst case scenario it helps someone who wants to be able to feel more comfortable and talk to their friends or family about these issues.

So, staged or not, no harm was done.

80

To be fair to Sam, I don't think he was saying he was against homosexuals, it was merely that it appeared or in his opinion was 'staged' for the cameras, possibly to get the media attention.
He might be right, but that's how American media works, there's always one or two things which they have to symbolise with an event or tragedy. But maybe they needed to come out and do this for their own benefit, to take control of any whispers or innuendo. And worst case scenario it helps someone who wants to be able to feel more comfortable and talk to their friends or family about these issues.
So, staged or not, no harm was done.

Yeah, I've noticed a lot of homophobes saying that these days.

 

Sam has a right to say what said but I don't believe a closed-mouth peck on the lips of your partner (especially given the emotion of the situation) deserves to be labelled 'gratuitous' and I'm guessing he wouldn't be saying that if it was a heterosexual couple.