Thing is, Sambono and Narrier are completely different types in so many ways. (Be it gamestyle, or path to where they were). They’re probably as different as Narrier is from Guelfi.
Yep, which is probably the most ‘vanilla’ role in football.
I’m on the fence with all this; on the one hand, I reckon there are plenty of white-as-fark boys we have overlooked purely because they had off-field issues or family problems. We clearly have drafted with a conservative slant in this regard.
But on the other hand… Not every indigenous kid has off-field issues or family problems, and some of them can even play inside mid. Yet, we really have seemed to stop drafting them recently, certainly to the extent that we used to. The numbers don’t lie on this front.
I don’t think it’s anything sinister, it may even just be the sort of thing that goes in cycles, but our low number of indigenous players on our list right now is, at the very least, odd.
2 Likes
My query on the club is that we are too conservative in general.
For example, why delist a player only to re-rookie them? Has this ever worked? (fortunately we didn’t do that this year but obviously this has been a failed approach by the club in previous seasons with the likes of Steinberg)
Why hold on to a player that has several years of exposed form but clearly hasn’t cut the mustard (see Jackson Merrett)?
Why not take more chances with our later/rookie picks (see Garlett, Narrier… etc. I also have an issue with only taking two players in the ND in 2013)?
I think there’s enough there to suggest that we are a little too conservative in our approach to drafting/recruitment. I’ll give them credit for taking a punt on The Package but that seems to be an outlier.
4 Likes
Rubbish.
This not about integrity.
It’s about reviewing processes of recruitment, so we’re accessible to everyone regardless of background. This is a conversation being had all over Australia.
This is not simply an Essendon issue, its society issue. It just so happens that we’re on an Essendon forum talking about how this society issue relates to Essendon.
What I want to hear from the club and supporters is: “while we think there isn’t any intentional reason for having a lack of Indigenous players at our club, we will continue to monitor and evaluate our recruiting practices for being more open to drafting people of all backgrounds. Including indigenous people and people from rural and disadvantaged backgrounds”
2 Likes
Wasn’t steak knives indigenous? Maybe I’m remembering wrong, I never actually saw him play as I got back to Australia in late 2014 and didn’t get to any VFL matches in 2015.
And Anthony Long, who was the Carlisle/Melks draft - 2009 or 2010
It’s 5, not 3.
And we gave both A Long and Y Eades two cracks and J Long got an upgrade - arguably none of which were justified.
6 Likes
It looks really bad at the moment because of the 2016 offseason. Demps, Eades, Edwards even Nguyen if you want to include him. That’s 4 plus Ryder the year before leaving in a bunch.
Was allways going to be a low point, but on the flip side we have had lots of late picks the last two years to address the issue(and didint) so you can see the angst that the situation doesn’t look like changing any time soon.
Whether it is a conscious decision or not. The numbers don’t lie from what Benfti and other stating against the percentage of indigenous draftees over the years at other clubs, and the AFL norm.
Whilst we are meant to be a club leading the charge for indigenous players we are currently at the bottom for intake and currently listed players which is really disappointing.
Needs to be looked at.
That said the Tigers after only having Edwards for a long time and the Relton Roberts debacle have only addressed their situation of recent times via top draft picks only. Rioli was a first rounder and Bolton a 2nd rounder.
Yeah righto. I was arguing your statement about people defending the club is a sign of guilt. Which is rubbish. If nothing is said then you’d say the silence is deafening. You can’t win either way with that logic.
Benfti’s a smart person. The can of worms wouldn’t have been opened if there wasn’t data to support it.
1 Like
This is a quote from Catherine Lio in the Q & A forum that indicates that the club has recognised that there is an issue and are doing something about it. In fact if you read that whole thread you will see that both Catherine and Paul have been very generous with their time and have been very open and honest about where the club is at and where it wants to be.
We all acknowledge that its a sensitive topic but this thread has become a witchhunt and the people that are in a position to do something about it have and are giving you the opportunity to speak up in a more respectful manner.
I don’t know Catherine or Paul personally but I have had interactions through work with people that can make a difference at the club and I can assure you that they are good honest people that want to make a difference.
It’s a shame that this thread has descended into blame and shame without any real discussion about moving forward and making a difference.
Hi!
Not a concern no. I would be more concerned if we were recruiting players purely based on their background and not on talent or needs if I’m honest.
Having said that, the future looks incredibly bright. Our NGA areas of West Arnhem and Tiwi have so incredibly strong talent coming through - and I’m not even talking about the Benfti age group.
Last year I went up to Maningrida as part of the clubs community trip as I wanted a closer view of how we could improve and give back more in our academy areas. Some great learnings came back, mostly around trying to keep a 12 month presence in the area rather than popping in once or twice a year.
We held a whole day football clinic for the kids of every year level, and let me tell you - the talent! And the girls! Some of the girls could kick the ball better then the boys in the same year.
The real key, and challenge for our academies team as they work through how the operations will work in the area, is how we create supportive pathways for these kids as they get older, and how we support their whole family unit as they progress in their careers. One of the reasons I am incredibly proud of the clubs relationship with The Long Walk and why we must continue to strengthen our relationships with our local and national indigenous communities to ensure we know what we need to provide a pathway to success for every player that enters our football club, no matter what race or religion.
2 Likes
I would be
Maybe we have set some requirements outside football ability that MOST of the aboriginal draftees dont meet.
And those that do are never at our pick.
And what of the white draftees that dont meet it?
Ie: if it was stable family life then we know the indigenous boys are already less likely than Anglo kids.
I’d say something like this is going on.
1 Like
I doubt they do. I think rather they (probably, presumably) have the expectation that players with those characteristics are more likely to make it. What you’re suggesting is that the club changes its views on what it deems best available, so that a particular group gets a higher pick up rate.
This the key to the topic. That the club has a different view of best available to you (and Benfti). So the real question is whether or not we’d be better placed to win a premiership if we had you, or Benfti, at the helm rather than Dodoro. And that’s not a question any of us can answer.
I will point out that the correlation argument is rubbish. As you said, there were many factors that fed into those years, Fremantle’s trading, father/sons and zone picks had as much to do as indigenous players. Correlation is not causation.
That is terrible logic. Using that logic, anyone who is ever innocent and says so is clear evidence that there is a significant issue.
3 Likes
A really good post. Firstly, just to say there could be a fourth reason:
- We didn’t feel we needed that player type at the time.
As I pointed out above, during the period Benfti is highlighting we’ve taken very few small forwards or pacey players. Despite many of us saying we needed some, whether indigenous or not. I think Colyer, Dalgiesh and A. Long would be the only really pacey players we took between 2007 and Eades/Walla/Morgan/J. Long in 2014. The only small forwards over the same period were Fantasia and Silverlock, and Fantasia had a big fan in the coaching team in Bassett. We did bring in Edwards of course. So the problem could be that we took very few players of the predominant indigenous type across this period.
However, to the other part of your post. I completely agree, and would hope that Essendon is being scientific and going back and reviewing our drafting notes and looking at what we got right and wrong. We should have that information and we should be tracking it. And based on the results, tweaking (or throwing out) our definition of “best available”. I mean, even if we draft for needs with some picks, we should have our internal view of who was best available and the order. And if we’re getting that wrong, something needs to change.
If there is a pool of players we’re missing (whether that is players like Parker or indigenous players, or whatever type) then we need to fix that hole.
Nice reference article, I found it quite interesting. I didn’t know our recruiting was so small, I thought post Knights’ years we’d increased spending a lot.
2 Likes
I don’t have any real knowledge of this situation or allegation but I have felt we are doing less drafting but more deeply, systemic community work.
I don’t know if there is a bigger reason for either of those things but I know the community work to be valuable beyond the draftees.
I’ll steer a little clear on what I’ve heard from community as most of it was focused at the saga and very messy.
I have also heard Benfti say things in the past that is at odds with some of what I’ve heard from Victorian community people and may be targeted more from other groups such as desert and salt water people which I have no relationship with
2 Likes
I’m very suspicious of that comparison of the numbers of recruiters at each club.
For instance, we might only include salaried staff like Merv, RFK and others. Maybe even Disco is counted as other football staff, while the scouts and spotters we have all over the country are not counted because they’re paid piecemeal.
And other clubs count anyone who’s got the recruiting manager’s phone number.
I was having a look at the numbers of indigenous players at each club, and couldn’t see any at either the Bulldogs or Swans and only 2 or 3 at a few other clubs. Not sure how we’re said to be trailing the field so badly.
But then, someone mentioned Jade Gresham and I had zero idea that he was considered indigenous.
1 Like
That is pretty poor IMO.
I would rather we have more scouts, and less profit!
Football – List and Recruiting
Adrian Dodoro - List & Recruiting Manager
Mervyn Keane - Senior Recruiting Manager
Rob Forster-Knight - Recruiting & Analytics Manager
Bryce Lewis - Pro Scout
Georgia Harvey - Recruiting and List Administrator
I would probably add
Darren Bewick - Eastern Rangers Scout
- Mynott, Begley, Dylan Clarke
We used to have a good Frankston scout as well 
Dean Rioli or Alywn Davey should be a NT Scout
I guess the Academies are really a good thing set up from the AFL as clubs were turning away from these players and with Academies we are now making it easier for them to assimilate into AFL football without getting a private education in Victoria.
That is provided we select guys from our NT zone and not use it to pickup kids out of the TAC Cup, which the AFL allowed under multicultural heritage.
You mean the last period we won a final?
No, people got confused because I was high on him, but I was that way because I know his parents, and I knew he was/is a good kid
1 Like
It’s a grey area, for instance Luke Dalhouse has heritage, reasonably strong but doesn’t identify.
Also I think people counting category b rookies is a bit disingenuous, HM and I are looking at a 10 year recruiting period. This is where we are the outlier. Cat B is also already heavily skewing the numbers. Richamond nominsted 8 indigenous players under cat b in the last year.
The dogs went for guys like Zephy Skinnner in the period we were drafting and redrafting Tyson Slattery. The swans had an influx period were they grabbed guys like Dennis-Lane, Sumner, Jetta, Morris. Plus Syndey actually has it harder than most ofher clubs because they are very tied to zone selections who have 0.05% indigenous population