what’s your take on lidia thorpe ?
is she only an mp cos of tokenism ?
Well she isn’t an MP anymore, so what are you asking?
did she only make it as far as she did cos of tokenism ?
That’s a horrible question.
Why can’t she have succeeded due to talent, hard work, values and passion.
We don’t ask if Tony Abbot only had success due to tokenism.
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so you’re suggesting that any indigenous members of parliament are there because of tokenism?
I didn’t suggest anything, I asked you if you felt it was tokenism.
why would it be?
donno, that’s why i asked.
Im genuinely not sure why you’re specifically using her as an example.
She is more credentialed than a lot of MP’s sitting currently.
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I was just curious if you felt that she earned her spot in there, by hard work or dedication and actually being good, or if she was given the role cos of the colour of her skin.
FWIW i have no opinion on her specifically i don’t think one way or the other as i don’t know her specific situation or circumstance.
when i mentioned providing opportunities for indigenous people, a good RAP isn’t about creating token positions, its about developing (in my experience of putting together RAPs) non-discriminatory hiring policies, and creating environments where indigenous people feel comfortable joining.
If you look at Thorpe’s work prior to entering politics, it stands to reason she was a good appointment regardless of her skin hue, Pol degree, tonnes of public sector work etc.
I know she’s not a bed sales person, or what ever criteria it takes to get a seat with the LNP. But she earned her shot in my mind.
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its interesting you bring it up, going back to a point much earlier in the thread.
We were talking about our recruiting strategies. Whilst not intending to be discriminatory. Was this focus on, good family, good schooling etc, inadvertently discriminating against players from indigenous community backgrounds?
A functioning RAP is a measure businesses use to see if something like that is occurring.
good to see you finally got where i was heading, re oppotunity.
i brought it up, cos she mentioned something similar about how aboriginal people don’t have the same opportunities.
an aboriginal person who also happens to be a woman, would mean it was harder for her to get where she did, right ?
yet she did.
so it’s either tokenism.
or she had the oppotunity that everyone else has, she worked hard, put aside all the trials and bullshit her race as a whole has too, and “took” her chance or opportunity.
just like other aborignal people who do the same, in every walk of life, be it football, acting, plumbing, gardening.
just food for thought.
i think you have to have a better understanding of what Indigenous disadvantage is before you can make a call like that. TBH
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It would be disheartening for Aboriginal people to be aware that a lot of people suspected they only succeeded due to tokenism. Imagine as you say meeting head on all the extra trails of being an aboriginal woman and overcoming it, but instead of being proud no one would would take your success on face value.
It’s not something I’ve ever had to deal with, my success are allways honoured as real.
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I’d be interested to hear from everybody who has missed out on an opportunity, because of perceived tokenism toward aboriginal people.
It seems like thousands of people are missing out on Opportunities because they’re white… come forward with your experiences. I expect to see this thread flooded with examples.
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let me talk about a personal experience, real world example. There were many of these, but here is one.
Few years ago i worked for a while at an NGO who engaged with kids who had left school early. The purpose of the program was to bring them back up to speed to re-enter school, put them through a Tafe course to ready them for the work force or steer them towards an apprenticeship.
This wasn’t aimed at any specific kid mind you, just school leavers between 15-17.
I worked with this one lad, Indigenous, who was forced to leave school as he was the eldest of 13 kids in a single parent household. He was very focused on bringing money into the house through working hard. He had his eyes on doing an carpentry apprenticeship (already a really gifted wood sculpturer) He was finding it hard to get a look in for an apprenticeship. Feedback he was getting was because he’d left school too early (Year 10, not ridiculous for trade) So we put him through a pre-apprenticeship tafe course for wood working. He absolutely aced it. Feedback from his teachers was he was top of his class in everything, work, attendance, attitude.
So we start setting up interviews for him, and he’s just not getting over the line for any job (mind you this is during an applicant shortage) we know in our heart of hearts why hes not getting a job, and we are even trying to stack the odds in his favor, when we are being approached for applicants, we are sending him in to be interviewed with half asleep stoners etc, and hes still not getting a gig… It took us 11 months after hed got his tafe cert to get him a gig, 11 MONTHS. He probably interviewed 50 times.
To his credit, hes stuck to his guns, hes now fully qualified and runs his own business, and is doing well.
But this is what I’m talking about when i talk about indigenous disadvantage, it takes many faces, not just, oh he’s from the bush… {insert sterotype} and things like RAP’s hold businesses accountable for letting people like this lad slipping through the cracks like he did for so long.
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In the Squibs (Federally) I think you could make an argument on Tokenism,… but not just with Indigenous. They have also had Token Women, (still do it seems) and now it’s highly likely Token Gays etc.
Affirmative action Hires, be they Women, Indigenous, Muslims Disabled etc, can always be attacked re merits by anyone who missed out to those individuals, and in most cases historically, it’s just been a case of sour grapes.
The Labor party has been attacked by others, (Men), who see the 50% Women policy as Affirmative action, & a form of discrimination against them. In some instances they may have a case, but in most, they just weren’t better.
More about kids from worse leagues don’t have exposed form against the other kids, and probably not the exposure to elite coaching/development, but IMHO yes.
To my mind it’s about safe recruiting.
Balance could quite easily tilt a bit back towards outright talent.
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yep, that happens so much.
we had an indigenous drug diversion counsellor. Full Psyc degree holding, the works.
We had people who were on court diversion orders refuse to sit down with her and would say, in those exactly words. “I dont want to talk to your token boong”.
real pillars of society these people.
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