So you dont know that Hird was referring to a spreadshaeet constructed after the fact rather than a contemporaneous one?
I dont recall either Hird or Bomber saying they were referring to a reconstructed spreadsheet, only that there was a spreadsheet that they had both seen.
I also think Hird made it very clear that the records were passed on to ASADA or the AFL and if there were now no records then people should be discussing it with them.
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Dank - “But the real bottom line from my point of view is they’re simply trying to structure information to obtain the end result they want.”
Rogue sports scientist. Uncontrolled environment.
Evans/Robson &/or the AFL removed/destroyed the documents to suit the planned narrative.
In a sworn deposition tendered to the Supreme Court as evidence in Mr Robinson’s unfair dismissal claim against Essendon, Suki Hobson, a former Essendon strength coach, said she challenged Lukin about a proposed “rogue operators” strategy to use Robinson as a scapegoat.Ms Hobson: “So we aren’t concerned with what actually happened?’’
Ms Lukin: “No, it won’t help us moving forward.’’
Hird though got scapegoated. Robinson protected.
And Lukin’s ‘us’ meant the AFL not the EFC
Would not surprise me if Lukin herself is ‘Sarah’, she looked to be losing the PR war and tide was turning against AFL so pulled out the wildcard.
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Correct- he doesn’t know when the spreadsheet was prepared.
We do know that there were a lot of records, but we don’t know if any are missing.
Dank gave the players AOD9604 and thymosin.
Little records exist of either supplement.
We do know that Evans was somehow motivated to snoop around Windy Hill.
It must have been a serious motivation for him as Chairman to go micro managing.
But not serious enough to inform his Board?
Apparently, in a recent Tanner interview it is beyond dispute that The Board had no knowledge of the program. So Evans acted unilaterally.
Did he inform the Board of his weekend. Only Brasher would know.
If he didn’t inform The Board, what was he hiding from them?
Important documents don’t exist, that may have exonerated the players.
Were these documents seized unwittingly seized by someone who was desperate to save the club, but their removal came back to bite hard.
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Just to set the record straight, the journalist intreviewing Tanner stated that it was beyond dispute that the Board did not know - it was not a direct quote from Tanner. So, you can only take that statement as her opinion, whether or not the opinion was formed from something Tanner said.
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Chip confirmed this was the case soon after the Hird interview on 360, and noted the total non controversy with regards Hird’s statement as those facts had already been reported well before Hird’s interview. The media’s hysteria that there were no records was always false and easily countered.
Further, if Wallis was reconstructing a spreadsheet that was replacing records that had been ‘stolen’ then the club would have provided this evidence to ASADA (and it would’ve leaked as it’s sensational) as it justifies why the spreadsheet was prepared months later when the club realised their records were inadequate.
Frankly the accusation made here of records stolen by Evans is more stupendous than anything reported by the media during the saga. Given the extensive ASADA investigation it’s impossible to erase from sight evidence of supplement transactions. Dave would have needed the help of 5 forensic accounting ninjas just to get into the accounting systems and start looking around for relevant documents. Then he would’ve needed to zap the memories of the accounting staff who would know who supplements are purchased from. Then he would need to bribe the suppliers or break into their offices to hide the sales side of the transaction.
And if you are referring to records of each injection by player by date then you haven’t been following as those records were never kept and the club has admitted that numerous times including Madden’s interview. The evidence we had of thymomodulin at the club wasn’t ‘stolen’ as it has been reported multiple times.
I am going to exit here from this discussion as I think it’s delusional and quite slanderous, and that’s not ok.
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- You havent answered my question.
- I dont believe anything the club says about the saga.
- The club has alwyas said that records dont exist when in fact there have been three people saying records did exist.
- Like many others I have no idea of the accounting systems used by EFC but considering their shambolic attention to detail in the supplement program and their lack of oversight of the chief architect of that program I think anything is likely.
- Given Evans refusal to say anything depsite his supposed best mate and a few others being thrown under the bus, I beleive questioning his actions and motives is entirely appropriate.
- I dont believe questioning the actions and motives of people amounts to slander.
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The fact remains - documents that you think should have surfaced from day one have not materialised.
You can level the blame at anyone with anything to do with the program, and anyone who went snooping around the club without informing The Board.
Don’t overstate the difficulty in removing documents and things. It happens.
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Also the AFL had Deloitte audit everything on computers so if they found that files had been deleted then it would have been preferred by the AFL to say they were never there in first place.
And if they weren’t deleted the AFL could have done it themselves and then let ASADA in the joint investigation review only what they wanted them to.
The whole point of joint investigation in the AFL’s eyes was to maintain control
IIRC someone mentioned on the forum that the club could get back everything the AFL/Deloitte took but given the club (Evans + board & Robson) actually agreed & assisted the rogue sports scientist narrative set by the AFL you wouldn’t expect they are going to do anything about it.
Move on. Clean air. Yada yada
Not based on educated knowledge, I just assumed that it was one more example of CAS getting the facts wrong.
Those with access to the transcripts may be able to shed light.
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The computer experts out there will correct me I’m sure but files deleted can be recovered by IT specialists?? I would have thought that ASADA or their representative would have gone through the gigabytes of files, documents etc and if they had been able to find even a sceric of information that implicated the club then that would have been front and back page news at all media outlets the next day. The other alternative is that there was no evidence of impropriety or their was evidence that proved Essendon had no case to answer and then under AFL oversight the “take out the bits we don’t need” protocol was enacted
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And let’s not forget that the total list of substances used is well known and published. There were 16 substances identified and thymosin was included NOT TB4. As I have stated and shown is Thymomodulin and thymosin are synonyms. If for one moment we accept that thymosin is TB4 then it is the only unregistered, unlisted WADA banned substance in that list of 16. So to state we took PE drug(s) is simply not true. And let’s not forget that TB4 was not listed as a single entity on the WADA banned list until this year.
I find it offensive that Google biochemists like Ben McDevitt and even Chip dismiss the Thymomodulin evidence so flippantly. But if they did consider it then we wouldn’t be where we are now.
Just on Evans, we can speculate until the cows come home on what he did and didn’t do. But what he did do was betray a man who he claimed to be a friend of (and others) and a proud club that had entrusted him to protect and lead us as a power club of the AFL. We are Esendon, and don’t Fark with us.
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Not all documents are computer generated and may only exist in hard copy form unless they are scanned in.
David Evans is probably the only one who can say what he did when he went into the club and he is not talking. If he were to talk, he could provide different nuances, as he did in regard to what Demetriou told him.
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So, Hamilton, Robson and Evans said absolutely nothing to anyone on the EFC Board in their official capacity or as an acquaintance about Dank and Robinson? So, when Board Members present said they would NOT sack Dank and Robinson because they could or did not want to pay them out, how did they separate Dank and Robinson and what they were doing, in the Football Department from affecting and infecting the whole club. These three kept this secret, somehow shut Hird, Thompson and Reid up from speaking to anyone else or reporting this to the AFL?
When did you find out about what Dank and Robinson had been doing? Beyond dispute, seriously?
most of me couldn’t give a fat rat’s what that fat rat has to say
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I am pretty sure McDevitt knew they had no evidence but it didn’t stop him from wanting them found guilty even though they had already been found not guilty !!! makes me have no faith in our AFP force if they can produce people like him
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You seem to be overlooking a major element of the entire saga. The AFL plan to blame governance and hold staff accountable was hatched and executed long before any actual review of our governance had started. The entire AFL plans hinged on selling the story that the club was a complete mess where nobody knew what was going on. This is the only way a rouge opperator narrative can be sold. Evidence of procedures and process were bad for the AFL.
We know that early on a raft of " exotic’ substances were being leaked to the media so where was that info coming from if there were no records? We know that many of the injections were given at the off-site shooting galleries and we know that these facilities have to keep detailed records or face fines or loss of license.
There are also bigger connetations to the idea that we were paying for treatments without invoices. This should have invited ASIC and tax office investigation but didn’t.
I don’t know if Evans destroyed evidence but what I do know is that he handed over ownership and control of everything we had to defend ourselves with. The AFL controlling them was practically the same as destroying them.
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All this disagreement about missing documents made me look for articles where Hird recounts that when the saga first broke, he went and found the player consent forms but the information sheets regarding each of the four supplements that (he thought) should have been attached to the back were missing.
Couldn’t find any though. Am I imagining it? Can someone dig one up for me?
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a friend of mine has been on boards before & believe me it is their business to know what is going on in all areas of the business. Saying they didn’t know is something that would have their butts in a sling big time …this whole thing has been shonky from the start & until the main players confess everything this will never go away
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Deleting evidence or not. There is less documented evidence of us taking TB4 as opposed to thymodulin.
It’s just what CAS chose to believe, and the fact they came up with this and did not believe any witnesses to the contrary.
This evidence does not stand up in Aus court or any other type of trial. Hence why the AFL tribunal let us off, but CAS needed the conviction to lower the burden of proof for future cases.
I don’t know if the 34 or even one of the 34 can take it to further court in Aus to argue legal points on that. Surely we can.
I also believed that Evans has done a dodgy on the club, and sacrificed his mates.
In an IT world not much is ever deleted completely unless you actively go out to destroy it, even then it leaves a trace.
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