Sorry Saga - “It’s actually quite funny people thinking they know more than they actually do”


#6831

The consent forms were meant to come with attached comprehensive scientific info on the substances noted on the forms of which the players were possibly to be administered.

Dank said they did. Hird said they did.

Someone removed it all.

Likely Evans or Robson post Vlad’s tip off. Lukin’s rogue sports scientist narrative was supposed to be the thing that got the players off.


#6832

Nah - It was the consent forms and admitting to have injections that got the players guilty - You needed to satisfy both strands to be charged by ASADA - Deny having injections and you were clear - I’ll add that your last sentence is irrelevant and shows a lack of understanding on your behalf.


#6833

With the consent forms, WADA concluded the players were complicit to a team-wide PED program. But you don’t have to “know” what you took to be found guilty. Without the consent forms WADA still had the micrometer “evidence” and “expert” advice that it could be nothing else other than TB4 that Dank had in the vials which he picked up from Alavi. Neither Dank nor Alavi ever provided any evidence for our lawyers to counter this - and read the transcripts and you’ll see the lawyers certainly tried to argue it was thymomodulin. If Dank advised where the thymomodulin was purchased from then there is no case at all and the saga would have ended in 2013 with the AFL club sanctions.

The suggestion that the players lie to the AFL (nah we didn’t get injected) despite numerous other evidence from practitioners and support staff (including Dank) that the players were injected with something is a completely ludicrous proposition. We think CAS would have accepted that rather than independent and professional testimony to the contrary? The players had no choice given the AFL player contracts but to acknowledge the truth they were injected.

Whether WADA would have still contended, and CAS accepted, that being injected meant being injected from Dank’s vials of “TB4” is untested. How WADA would have identified which players received injections is not clear. But given they already dismissed evidence that it wasn’t a team-wide program, and that the players were eventually identified as guilty based on “assumption” (they all must have received TB4 because it was the cornerstone of Dank’s program) rather than fact, then the same unjust outcome still may have occurred. As the President of the world players association (Schwab) said before the CAS decision, sometimes CAS don’t make decisions based on the facts of the case, rather they deliver a verdict which implements policy, and CAS wanted support for an expanded power to convict without a positive test.

Also I don’t believe Dank ever said the information sheets re each supplement were attached to each consent form. He said he left a sheet on each supplement in manila folders and a detailed spreadsheet. The spreadsheet is acknowledged by ASADA. It would make no sense to attach the same information sheets to 34 player consent forms. That technical information re each supplement is very easy to obtain from the suppliers. The problem is Dank won’t tell us who the suppliers were. The idea that thymomodulin scientific data was attached to each consent form and then removed is far-fetched.


#6834

Makes a mockery of the Essendon acted alone narrative… All of us already knew that though. Surprised clubs still continue to inject their players - I thought this was going to be banned by the afl after all the faux outrage about our injection program. Anyway Eagles can do whatever they like now as they won a premiership now and afl wouldn’t want that to come into question.
I probably wouldn’t have divulged this information about Lamb as I assume it was told to you in confidence. I certainly appreciate it but I hope noone goes yelling it out from the bleachers - you can trust me but I can’t speak for any other angry blitzers. Just hope that everybody here uses their discretion…


#6835

42 players in the program and 34 players charged - That suggests some players either didn’t sign consent forms, didn’t have injections ( which seems strange ), denied having injections or didn’t attend interviews.

I have given you plausible facts - How did you account for the missing eight ? - I will add that it’s hard to believe no-one has never told a lie.


#6836

I think you’find it’s a mix of these. Zaharakis famous for not liking needles. Not sure re Reimers.


#6837

Famous for not liking training, or turning up to play


#6838

Ok - am at the Jobe & Fletch night.
Anyone want a specific question asked?


#6839

Are/do they stay in touch with the guy’s that were part of the saga but no longer at the club (retired, changed clubs etc)?


#6840

They had a send off for BJ last night.


#6841

The band of players - if I don’t speak to one of them for 15 years and they text and say ‘want to catch up?’ I’d be there straight away. Jobe’s words.


#6842

Mason starts training with Bombers on Monday.
He’s a bit crook - from. schoolies.


Father Son Watch (updated 1 June)
#6843

What about asking @yaco55 ‘a question above? Or how accountable they consider the AFL?


#6844

Does JD really tuck it in his Sock??

(Asking for a friend, … :smirk: )


#6845

A bit late to ask @BLOODSTAINED_DEVILS, but Fletch did say that he attended training recently a saw Shiel for the first time - and what an amazing specimen he was.


#6846

I don’t actually understand what Yaco is getting at.
Actually, I never have.


#6847

If you’re still there, having bacon & eggs with Fletch, I think he wants to know why it is only 34 who went to CAS out of 42 on the list. Thanks for this @Mackster , any further comments on the night?


#6848

Because of the consent forms


#6849

I don’t think it’s anything underhanded. Not everyone was on the Jakey Melksham squat every day and rip all your jeans program.

Demps was returning from injury, so would have had his own more conservative program.

First year players like Jerret and Bags didn’t participate as would have been on a reduced workload anyway.


#6850

Acquire Learning scandal: Ex-AFL boss Demetrieu faces court grilling

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/companies/acquire-learning-scandal-exafl-boss-demetrieu-faces-court-grilling/news-story/64418fe873f40aad2089368b6bbbbb6f

RICH LISTS EDITOR

11:00PM DECEMBER 6, 2018

Crown Resorts director and former AFL boss Andrew Demetriou is to be grilled under oath about his involvement with failed training group Acquire Learning, which took hundreds of millions of dollars in government funding before collapsing last year.

Mr Demetriou, who was an Acquire shareholder and chairman of the company’s “advisory board”, and its former directors, Mr Demetriou’s nephew Tim Demetriou, racing identity John Wall and Jesse Sahely, will face questioning in the Victorian Supreme Court as part of a liquidator’s examination funded by the Australian Taxation Office.

The move comes amid an investigation into possible crimes committed by directors and officers of Acquire, which was placed in administration in May last year owing $145 million before later being placed into liquidation.

Mr Demetriou is the second Crown director to face legal action in recent weeks, with the Australian Securities & Investments Commission launching Federal Court action against Harold Mitchell regarding allegations of keeping Tennis Australia in the dark about potentially lucrative broadcast bids while he was a director of the sporting body.

Issues to be investigated during the Acquire examinations include whether the company can claw back a total of $15m it loaned to shareholders, including Andrew Demetriou, Tim Demetriou, Mr Wall, Mr Dau and ABC board member Peter Lewis.

The Supreme Court is to hear liquidator Barry Wight’s application for the examinations as early as today, with hearings likely to be held in the new year.

Mr Demetriou declined to comment. Mr Wall, Mr Tim Demetriou and Mr Sahely could not be reached yesterday through their last known contact, Arnold Bloch Leibler partner Justin Vaatstra, but have previously denied Acquire traded while insolvent.

The Australian is not suggesting that Andrew Demetriou, Tim Demetriou, Mr Wall, Mr Dau and Mr Lewis have engaged in any wrongdoing, only that they are being investigated.

In an October circular to creditors, Mr Wight, of Cor Cordis, said that after the examinations he would be “better informed and able to identify the claims against the directors and other officers and executives, and their estimated realisable value”.

Mr Wight said that in addition to the shareholder loans issue he would also explore the possibility of action against the directors for insolvent trading and breaches of their duties. He added that he had reported four crimes allegedly committed by directors of the company to the corporate watchdog — failing to keep books and records, failing to exercise care and diligence, failing to act in good faith and abuse of position.

Despite Mr Demetriou’s title as “chairman” of the advisory board, and Mr Lewis’s title as “financial director”, ASIC records show that neither was ever formally registered as a director of the main company in the training group, Acquire Learning & Careers. Mr Wight told creditors that Mr Demetriou still owed Acquire more than $327,000 that the company loaned to his private company, Katia, in 2015 and 2016.

In total, Mr Demetriou was loaned about $1.7m in 2014 to buy shares in Acquire, a figure that was later paid out to him in the form of a discretionary bonus. The former AFL boss has also previously claimed he was owed $284,083 as a creditor to Acquire.

Mr Wight said Mr Dau owed Acquire $8.9m through his vehicle Road2Hawaii while Tim Demetriou and Mr Saheley owed it $5.9m through their company TJ Consulting (Australia), which was deregistered last month.

Mr Lewis owed Acquire about $100,000 through his company Salpet while Mr Wall personally owed it $6100, Mr Wight told creditors. He told creditors he hoped the examinations would “ascertain the financial capacities of the companies, trusts and individuals involved to provide a better understanding of the recoverability of the loans”.

Mr Wight said he believed Acquire was insolvent from at least August 2016, after which it ran up $22.1m in additional debts.

However, “there are indicators to suggest the company was insolvent earlier”, Mr Wight said. “Investigations regarding the exact date of insolvency are still ongoing,” he said. “The public examinations of the directors and other key officers and executives will further assist in forming a final view on the date of insolvency.”

Acquire was established in 2012 and made huge profits signing up prospective students and jobseekers to education and training courses, receiving fees for referrals as part of the VET FEE-HELP student loan scheme.