Someone could tell that US Committee how Russia bought WADA, as illustrated in that WADA Executive Committee report of 11 May 2913, picked up by BWAS in an earlier post.
Is it all starting to come apart for WADA? Can I gloat?
Antidoping Officials Get an Earful From Congress: âWhat a Broken Systemâ
By REBECCA R. RUIZFEB. 28, 2017
Credit Doug Mills/The New York Times
WASHINGTON â Federal lawmakers excoriated international sports officials on Tuesday for what they called a bungled response to the Russian doping scandal, with delayed investigations, insufficient sanctions and a lack of interest in rooting out cheating that has tarnished the Olympic brand.
During a two-hour hearing called by a House subcommittee, Democrats and Republicans chastised representatives of the International Olympic Committee and the World Anti-Doping Agency, the regulator of drugs in sports.
âWhat a broken system,â Representative Greg Walden, Republican of Oregon and chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, said, asking why WADA â to which the United States is the largest national contributor â took years to act on the multiple whistle-blower tips it had received from within Russia, pursuing investigations only after news media reports.
âItâs been a quagmire,â Mr. Walden said, criticizing officialsâ âindecisive and inconsistentâ responses to revelations that some 1,000 Russian athletes were implicated in state-sponsored doping schemes.
Continue reading the main story
Representatives of WADA and the I.O.C. spoke little, accepting relentless criticism with few rebuttals. âAt these sort of things, youâre always a little frustrated you canât say more,â Richard Budgett, the I.O.C.âs medical and scientific director, said as he prepared to depart.
Rob Koehler, the deputy director general of WADA, defended the organizationâs response to the scandal, pointing to the independent investigations it had ultimately commissioned, which amassed evidence of the vast scope of Russiaâs cheating that the I.O.C. and others are continuing to review.
WADAâs president, Craig Reedie, is a member of the I.O.C.; until August, he was a top executive with that organization as well.
âIf you continue to have sport overseeing investigations, overseeing compliance, overseeing itself â itâs the fox guarding the henhouse,â Travis Tygart, the United Statesâ top antidoping official, told the subcommittee.
Mr. Tygart invoked an array of global reforms that he and a coalition of other national antidoping organizations had proposed in August. Most of all, he advocated making the global antidoping regulator more independent of sports organizations, empowering it to be an aggressive policeman.
The United States Olympic Committee, which is politicking to host the 2024 Summer Games, had argued against holding a hearing last year, when Mr. Tygart and antidoping authorities from more than a dozen other nations were pressuring the I.O.C. to ban Russia from the 2016 Games after learning the nationâs antidoping lab chief had tampered with scores of urine samples at the 2014 Sochi Olympics.
Representative Tim Murphy â Republican of Pennsylvania and the chairman of the subcommittee on oversight and investigations, which called the hearing â said Tuesday that the inquiry was justified and that Congressâs concern went beyond its $2 million annual contribution to the global regulator.
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âIt isnât just the money the United States puts into this,â Mr. Murphy said. âIf it takes money to motivate things, fine, but the real reason is: I want sports to be fair.â He said he also considered doping a public health issue.
Testifying alongside the sports and antidoping authorities were two American Olympic medalists, the swimmer Michael Phelps and the shot-putter Adam Nelson, who told personal anecdotes. Some lawmakers took photographs of the athletes before and after the charged discussion.
Mr. Phelps, the worldâs most decorated Olympian, said he did not believe that he had ever competed in a clean field, and he echoed Mr. Tygartâs calls for making the antidoping regulator more independent.
Mr. Nelson â who inherited a gold medal roughly a decade after he had competed, once a reporter had informed him that a competitor had been disqualified for doping â said he wanted to ensure officials would not âsweep this under the rug.â
He was presented with his gold medal in the food court of an Atlanta airport, a fact numerous representatives seized on, arguing for a ceremony to honor the dozens of athletes who have retroactively won medals because of the rash of doping disqualifications over the last year.
Diana DeGette, Democrat of Colorado, drew parallels between Tuesdayâs proceeding and hearings called in the early 2000s by the same subcommittee regarding the Salt Lake Olympics corruption scandal, in which American officials had bribed I.O.C. members to win the right to host the 2002 Games.
After reading excerpts from an I.O.C. letter on the Russian doping scandal released last week, Ms. DeGette said, âThis is the same kind of gobbledygook we got from the I.O.C. then.â
In the letter, addressed to various sports organizations, the I.O.C. had sought to differentiate between calling Russiaâs widespread cheating âstate-sponsoredâ and âinstitutional,â a major point of contention for Russian sports officials who have emphasized that President Vladimir V. Putin and his inner circle were not involved in the coordinated cheating.
âTheyâre looking at angels dancing on the head of a pin, and I donât even know what theyâre talking about,â Ms. DeGette said. âThe international sports community needs to realize weâre dealing with Russia and the honor system is simply not going to be enough.â
Is Chip LeGrand now calling for a Senate inquiry?
It is all James Hird 's fault. While he wasn't part of the relevant organisational structure, he should have oversighted every supplement injection and everything that came through the door at the EFC, as well as offsite stuff. Not enough for him to specify conditions. His coaching responsibilities should have left him with enough time to do that. And, he should have tried harder to get Dank and Robinson sacked. Not the responsibility of the CEO or others. Could not be the fault of anyone else with a direct line of responsibilityThanks for that insight Damo.
Im assuming that its in /sarcastica font
It is all James Hird 's fault. While he wasn't part of the relevant organisational structure, he should have oversighted every supplement injection and everything that came through the door at the EFC, as well as offsite stuff. Not enough for him to specify conditions. His coaching responsibilities should have left him with enough time to do that. And, he should have tried harder to get Dank and Robinson sacked. Not the responsibility of the CEO or others. Could not be the fault of anyone else with a direct line of responsibility
And for many people, as laughable as it is, this is the key to the drugz dungeon doping of all our players. And fortunately for those of that mind, itâs all encompassing so they need look no further for fault. Genius.
The big brass at Essendon are hardly likely to say anything now after all this time, they've spent denying whatever it was that was taken???http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/allan-hird-rita-panahi-finally-gets-it-about-the-afl-now-she-needs-to-do-the-same-with-asada/news-story/8fa82d0d2a783099fda49fe8ad681954Allan Hird: Focus needs to be on ASADA as wellAllan Hird, Herald Sun
18 minutes agoTHE penny has finally dropped for Rita Panahi about the AFL.
Her article reveals she now knows the AFL attempted to manipulate the process in relation to the Essendon supplements saga.
Welcome to the party Ms Panahi.
Those of us who have read Chip Le Grandâs excellent book, the Straight Dope, Michael Warnerâs reporting in the Herald Sun and the transcripts of the Federal Court case Hird vs. ASADA have known since 2013 that the AFL has never been interested in the truth.
Indeed, it has actively sought to hide the truth to protect its office bearers.
But as the saying goes better late than never.
All Ms Panahi has to do now, on her self-realisation quest, is to have the same revelation about ASADA under its soon to be departing CEO Ben McDevitt.
She runs the line that Mr McDevitt is some kind of white knight on his charger trying to clean up sport. Well the facts show he is quite different.
The facts show outgoing ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt is anything but a white knight, says Allan Hird. Picture: Ray Strange
Let me go through some lines she uses to pump up Mr McDevittâs tyres. Ms Panahi quotes Mr McDevitt as saying: âwe know that hundreds, if not thousands, of injections were given to Essendon players during the course of 2012â.Think about that for a minute. If Mr McDevitt knew the number of injections, why didnât he give an exact figure? Itâs either hundreds or itâs thousands.
Either he knew itâs hundreds or he knew itâs thousands. It canât be both.
Perhaps Mr McDevitt is confusing the number of injections with the sweet coloured sprinkles mums and dads use to make fairy bread.
Ms Panahi relies on the decision of the Court of Arbitration for Sport that found the players had taken Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned under the WADA code to defend Mr McDevitt.
But how did the players get to be tried by CAS? Simply because Mr McDevitt was after convictions not justice.
The CAS decision could never have been made if Australian legal principles had applied.
That is the precise reason why Mr McDevitt did not challenge the decision of the AFL Tribunal comprising two Australian Judges and an eminent barrister that found the players had no case to answer.
The tribunal used Australian legal principles and Australian rules of evidence when it cleared the players of any wrongdoing.
ASADA had the right under the WADA architecture to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision in Australia. But Mr McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence.
Thatâs right, there was no evidence the players had taken TB4.
Ben McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence. Picture: Ray Strange
Instead, ASADA under Mr McDevittâs watch gave WADA $US100,000, use of ASADAâs lawyers and the access to ASADAâs failed tribunal case to have the players tried again before CAS.He knew Australian legal principles and rules of evidence would not apply and he knew the case before CAS would be a fresh trial.
So here we have a highly paid Australian public servant funding the trial of 34 Australians in a foreign court knowing they would not receive Australian justice.
Furthermore, under Australian law, there is a simple but powerful principle, double jeopardy, and this means you canât be tried for the same crime twice.
But the Essendon players were, and Mr McDevitt engineered it that way.
Ms Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true the players did not tell about their injections.
Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.
Many did, and in any case, at the time in 2012, there was no requirement for them to do so. That statement by Mr McDevitt, besides being untrue, was an irrelevant distraction.
The players were charged with taking TB4. Yet there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that TB4 was ever mentioned in any document or conversation to the players.
In fact, the players first heard of TB4 when they were charged with taking it. So, what is the point in Mr McDevitt trying to infer the players had something to hide?
Mr McDevitt has history in making things up to justify his case. In his testimony to senate estimates on March 3, 2016, he said the players did not do any research into the substances they were given. He said all they had to do was look up the website.
Well, many people have done so, including some of the players, and the WADA banned list for 2012 does not list TB4.
So, what would be the point of the players going to the website? The substance they were charged with taking was not listed.
All of this of course calls into question Ms Panahiâs attempt to portray Mr McDevitt as some sort of white knight trying to clean up sport. More likely his aim throughout was convictions, not justice.
My advice to Ms Panahi would be: before jumping in to champion someone, do your research. The corollary is also before trying to impugn the Essendon playersâ reputations, do your research.
Allan Hird is a former Essendon player and father of Essendon great James Hird.
Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.
Is she for real? Has it ever occurred to her that maybe the players genuinely didnât know what they were injected with.
She has a peanut for a brain.
I am so pleased A.Hird has stepped in. He writes very clearly and succinctly. He is a great figurehead for this.
the âwe donât know what we tookâ line was adopted by the club at the insistence of the AFL spin doctor Ms LukinâŚthe players know what they had it was what they agreed to have âŚdo they know it beyond any doubt âŚno âŚunless they had every substance checked before it was injected into themâŚthey trusted they were given what they were told they were givenâŚand tests would indicate that to be the case. So this we donât know what substances they were is crapâŚthey were charged with TB4 a single substance as no evidence of anything else was ever found âŚno TB4 or referrals to it were ever found either but I guess they had to have something to charge them with seeing as how both ASADA & AFL CEOâs put such stock in the âfactâ that Essendon were drug cheatsâŚwell they had to be didnât they?? Hird & the executive wanted a better supplements programâŚDank was at the club do the mathâŚas far as ASADA were concerned 2 plus 2 did equal five âŚit had to because they couldnât prosecute if the answer was 4 âŚIf I were the club Iâd be coming clean about the pressure to say they didnât know what the players had because I would hazard a guess they did.
they wont even try to clear Hirdâs name by telling all who will listen about the reporting structures & job descriptions at the club. No wonder the poor guy ended up in hospital âŚwhy are people so cowardly & weak? âŚ
Helen, your question is actually your answer.
This is a big talking point. My guess is that whilst there may have been documented job descriptions and a reporting structure the place was pretty shambolic.
As in many organisations, whatâs supposed to happen looks very different to what actually happens.
100% correct. And how people perform their jobs is defined more by their character than their job descriptions IMO
It is all James Hird 's fault. While he wasn't part of the relevant organisational structure, he should have oversighted every supplement injection and everything that came through the door at the EFC, as well as offsite stuff. Not enough for him to specify conditions. His coaching responsibilities should have left him with enough time to do that. And, he should have tried harder to get Dank and Robinson sacked. Not the responsibility of the CEO or others. Could not be the fault of anyone else with a direct line of responsibility
Thanks for that insight Damo.
It is all James Hird 's fault. While he wasn't part of the relevant organisational structure, he should have oversighted every supplement injection and everything that came through the door at the EFC, as well as offsite stuff. Not enough for him to specify conditions. His coaching responsibilities should have left him with enough time to do that. And, he should have tried harder to get Dank and Robinson sacked. Not the responsibility of the CEO or others. Could not be the fault of anyone else with a direct line of responsibilityI know it's stating the obvious, but not sure it's been regularly stated in this obvious way (which also addresses a point made by Darli):
Hirdâs level of responsibility for Robinson/Dank (however consistent/inconsistent with the org chart the responsibilities were actually handled) is defined by his ability to have them sacked. Which is to say: demonstrably zero.
So on the org chart: no responsibilty. In actual (shambolic or not) day to day power terms: no responsibility.
The big brass at Essendon are hardly likely to say anything now after all this time, they've spent denying whatever it was that was taken???http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/allan-hird-rita-panahi-finally-gets-it-about-the-afl-now-she-needs-to-do-the-same-with-asada/news-story/8fa82d0d2a783099fda49fe8ad681954Allan Hird: Focus needs to be on ASADA as wellAllan Hird, Herald Sun
18 minutes agoTHE penny has finally dropped for Rita Panahi about the AFL.
Her article reveals she now knows the AFL attempted to manipulate the process in relation to the Essendon supplements saga.
Welcome to the party Ms Panahi.
Those of us who have read Chip Le Grandâs excellent book, the Straight Dope, Michael Warnerâs reporting in the Herald Sun and the transcripts of the Federal Court case Hird vs. ASADA have known since 2013 that the AFL has never been interested in the truth.
Indeed, it has actively sought to hide the truth to protect its office bearers.
But as the saying goes better late than never.
All Ms Panahi has to do now, on her self-realisation quest, is to have the same revelation about ASADA under its soon to be departing CEO Ben McDevitt.
She runs the line that Mr McDevitt is some kind of white knight on his charger trying to clean up sport. Well the facts show he is quite different.
The facts show outgoing ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt is anything but a white knight, says Allan Hird. Picture: Ray Strange
Let me go through some lines she uses to pump up Mr McDevittâs tyres. Ms Panahi quotes Mr McDevitt as saying: âwe know that hundreds, if not thousands, of injections were given to Essendon players during the course of 2012â.Think about that for a minute. If Mr McDevitt knew the number of injections, why didnât he give an exact figure? Itâs either hundreds or itâs thousands.
Either he knew itâs hundreds or he knew itâs thousands. It canât be both.
Perhaps Mr McDevitt is confusing the number of injections with the sweet coloured sprinkles mums and dads use to make fairy bread.
Ms Panahi relies on the decision of the Court of Arbitration for Sport that found the players had taken Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned under the WADA code to defend Mr McDevitt.
But how did the players get to be tried by CAS? Simply because Mr McDevitt was after convictions not justice.
The CAS decision could never have been made if Australian legal principles had applied.
That is the precise reason why Mr McDevitt did not challenge the decision of the AFL Tribunal comprising two Australian Judges and an eminent barrister that found the players had no case to answer.
The tribunal used Australian legal principles and Australian rules of evidence when it cleared the players of any wrongdoing.
ASADA had the right under the WADA architecture to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision in Australia. But Mr McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence.
Thatâs right, there was no evidence the players had taken TB4.
Ben McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence. Picture: Ray Strange
Instead, ASADA under Mr McDevittâs watch gave WADA $US100,000, use of ASADAâs lawyers and the access to ASADAâs failed tribunal case to have the players tried again before CAS.He knew Australian legal principles and rules of evidence would not apply and he knew the case before CAS would be a fresh trial.
So here we have a highly paid Australian public servant funding the trial of 34 Australians in a foreign court knowing they would not receive Australian justice.
Furthermore, under Australian law, there is a simple but powerful principle, double jeopardy, and this means you canât be tried for the same crime twice.
But the Essendon players were, and Mr McDevitt engineered it that way.
Ms Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true the players did not tell about their injections.
Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.
Many did, and in any case, at the time in 2012, there was no requirement for them to do so. That statement by Mr McDevitt, besides being untrue, was an irrelevant distraction.
The players were charged with taking TB4. Yet there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that TB4 was ever mentioned in any document or conversation to the players.
In fact, the players first heard of TB4 when they were charged with taking it. So, what is the point in Mr McDevitt trying to infer the players had something to hide?
Mr McDevitt has history in making things up to justify his case. In his testimony to senate estimates on March 3, 2016, he said the players did not do any research into the substances they were given. He said all they had to do was look up the website.
Well, many people have done so, including some of the players, and the WADA banned list for 2012 does not list TB4.
So, what would be the point of the players going to the website? The substance they were charged with taking was not listed.
All of this of course calls into question Ms Panahiâs attempt to portray Mr McDevitt as some sort of white knight trying to clean up sport. More likely his aim throughout was convictions, not justice.
My advice to Ms Panahi would be: before jumping in to champion someone, do your research. The corollary is also before trying to impugn the Essendon playersâ reputations, do your research.
Allan Hird is a former Essendon player and father of Essendon great James Hird.
Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.
Is she for real? Has it ever occurred to her that maybe the players genuinely didnât know what they were injected with.
She has a peanut for a brain.
I am so pleased A.Hird has stepped in. He writes very clearly and succinctly. He is a great figurehead for this.
the âwe donât know what we tookâ line was adopted by the club at the insistence of the AFL spin doctor Ms LukinâŚthe players know what they had it was what they agreed to have âŚdo they know it beyond any doubt âŚno âŚunless they had every substance checked before it was injected into themâŚthey trusted they were given what they were told they were givenâŚand tests would indicate that to be the case. So this we donât know what substances they were is crapâŚthey were charged with TB4 a single substance as no evidence of anything else was ever found âŚno TB4 or referrals to it were ever found either but I guess they had to have something to charge them with seeing as how both ASADA & AFL CEOâs put such stock in the âfactâ that Essendon were drug cheatsâŚwell they had to be didnât they?? Hird & the executive wanted a better supplements programâŚDank was at the club do the mathâŚas far as ASADA were concerned 2 plus 2 did equal five âŚit had to because they couldnât prosecute if the answer was 4 âŚIf I were the club Iâd be coming clean about the pressure to say they didnât know what the players had because I would hazard a guess they did.
they wont even try to clear Hirdâs name by telling all who will listen about the reporting structures & job descriptions at the club. No wonder the poor guy ended up in hospital âŚwhy are people so cowardly & weak? âŚ
Helen, your question is actually your answer.
This is a big talking point. My guess is that whilst there may have been documented job descriptions and a reporting structure the place was pretty shambolic.
As in many organisations, whatâs supposed to happen looks very different to what actually happens.
And ensuring whats supposed to happen is happening is the responsibility of the CEO & Board. The absolute least they should have done is made that clear & continue to make it clear by accepting that responsibility. Their silence allows the blame to remain on Hird & protects the elements on the board who should be exposed for their poor performance. How any board members remain after the way the saga was handled is staggering.
It is all James Hird 's fault. While he wasnât part of the relevant organisational structure, he should have oversighted every supplement injection and everything that came through the door at the EFC, as well as offsite stuff. Not enough for him to specify conditions. His coaching responsibilities should have left him with enough time to do that. And, he should have tried harder to get Dank and Robinson sacked. Not the responsibility of the CEO or others.
Could not be the fault of anyone else with a direct line of responsibility
The big brass at Essendon are hardly likely to say anything now after all this time, they've spent denying whatever it was that was taken???http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/allan-hird-rita-panahi-finally-gets-it-about-the-afl-now-she-needs-to-do-the-same-with-asada/news-story/8fa82d0d2a783099fda49fe8ad681954Allan Hird: Focus needs to be on ASADA as wellAllan Hird, Herald Sun
18 minutes agoTHE penny has finally dropped for Rita Panahi about the AFL.
Her article reveals she now knows the AFL attempted to manipulate the process in relation to the Essendon supplements saga.
Welcome to the party Ms Panahi.
Those of us who have read Chip Le Grandâs excellent book, the Straight Dope, Michael Warnerâs reporting in the Herald Sun and the transcripts of the Federal Court case Hird vs. ASADA have known since 2013 that the AFL has never been interested in the truth.
Indeed, it has actively sought to hide the truth to protect its office bearers.
But as the saying goes better late than never.
All Ms Panahi has to do now, on her self-realisation quest, is to have the same revelation about ASADA under its soon to be departing CEO Ben McDevitt.
She runs the line that Mr McDevitt is some kind of white knight on his charger trying to clean up sport. Well the facts show he is quite different.
The facts show outgoing ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt is anything but a white knight, says Allan Hird. Picture: Ray Strange
Let me go through some lines she uses to pump up Mr McDevittâs tyres. Ms Panahi quotes Mr McDevitt as saying: âwe know that hundreds, if not thousands, of injections were given to Essendon players during the course of 2012â.Think about that for a minute. If Mr McDevitt knew the number of injections, why didnât he give an exact figure? Itâs either hundreds or itâs thousands.
Either he knew itâs hundreds or he knew itâs thousands. It canât be both.
Perhaps Mr McDevitt is confusing the number of injections with the sweet coloured sprinkles mums and dads use to make fairy bread.
Ms Panahi relies on the decision of the Court of Arbitration for Sport that found the players had taken Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned under the WADA code to defend Mr McDevitt.
But how did the players get to be tried by CAS? Simply because Mr McDevitt was after convictions not justice.
The CAS decision could never have been made if Australian legal principles had applied.
That is the precise reason why Mr McDevitt did not challenge the decision of the AFL Tribunal comprising two Australian Judges and an eminent barrister that found the players had no case to answer.
The tribunal used Australian legal principles and Australian rules of evidence when it cleared the players of any wrongdoing.
ASADA had the right under the WADA architecture to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision in Australia. But Mr McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence.
Thatâs right, there was no evidence the players had taken TB4.
Ben McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence. Picture: Ray Strange
Instead, ASADA under Mr McDevittâs watch gave WADA $US100,000, use of ASADAâs lawyers and the access to ASADAâs failed tribunal case to have the players tried again before CAS.He knew Australian legal principles and rules of evidence would not apply and he knew the case before CAS would be a fresh trial.
So here we have a highly paid Australian public servant funding the trial of 34 Australians in a foreign court knowing they would not receive Australian justice.
Furthermore, under Australian law, there is a simple but powerful principle, double jeopardy, and this means you canât be tried for the same crime twice.
But the Essendon players were, and Mr McDevitt engineered it that way.
Ms Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true the players did not tell about their injections.
Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.
Many did, and in any case, at the time in 2012, there was no requirement for them to do so. That statement by Mr McDevitt, besides being untrue, was an irrelevant distraction.
The players were charged with taking TB4. Yet there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that TB4 was ever mentioned in any document or conversation to the players.
In fact, the players first heard of TB4 when they were charged with taking it. So, what is the point in Mr McDevitt trying to infer the players had something to hide?
Mr McDevitt has history in making things up to justify his case. In his testimony to senate estimates on March 3, 2016, he said the players did not do any research into the substances they were given. He said all they had to do was look up the website.
Well, many people have done so, including some of the players, and the WADA banned list for 2012 does not list TB4.
So, what would be the point of the players going to the website? The substance they were charged with taking was not listed.
All of this of course calls into question Ms Panahiâs attempt to portray Mr McDevitt as some sort of white knight trying to clean up sport. More likely his aim throughout was convictions, not justice.
My advice to Ms Panahi would be: before jumping in to champion someone, do your research. The corollary is also before trying to impugn the Essendon playersâ reputations, do your research.
Allan Hird is a former Essendon player and father of Essendon great James Hird.
Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.
Is she for real? Has it ever occurred to her that maybe the players genuinely didnât know what they were injected with.
She has a peanut for a brain.
I am so pleased A.Hird has stepped in. He writes very clearly and succinctly. He is a great figurehead for this.
the âwe donât know what we tookâ line was adopted by the club at the insistence of the AFL spin doctor Ms LukinâŚthe players know what they had it was what they agreed to have âŚdo they know it beyond any doubt âŚno âŚunless they had every substance checked before it was injected into themâŚthey trusted they were given what they were told they were givenâŚand tests would indicate that to be the case. So this we donât know what substances they were is crapâŚthey were charged with TB4 a single substance as no evidence of anything else was ever found âŚno TB4 or referrals to it were ever found either but I guess they had to have something to charge them with seeing as how both ASADA & AFL CEOâs put such stock in the âfactâ that Essendon were drug cheatsâŚwell they had to be didnât they?? Hird & the executive wanted a better supplements programâŚDank was at the club do the mathâŚas far as ASADA were concerned 2 plus 2 did equal five âŚit had to because they couldnât prosecute if the answer was 4 âŚIf I were the club Iâd be coming clean about the pressure to say they didnât know what the players had because I would hazard a guess they did.
they wont even try to clear Hirdâs name by telling all who will listen about the reporting structures & job descriptions at the club. No wonder the poor guy ended up in hospital âŚwhy are people so cowardly & weak? âŚ
Helen, your question is actually your answer.
This is a big talking point. My guess is that whilst there may have been documented job descriptions and a reporting structure the place was pretty shambolic.
As in many organisations, whatâs supposed to happen looks very different to what actually happens.
The big brass at Essendon are hardly likely to say anything now after all this time, they've spent denying whatever it was that was taken???http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/allan-hird-rita-panahi-finally-gets-it-about-the-afl-now-she-needs-to-do-the-same-with-asada/news-story/8fa82d0d2a783099fda49fe8ad681954Allan Hird: Focus needs to be on ASADA as wellAllan Hird, Herald Sun
18 minutes agoTHE penny has finally dropped for Rita Panahi about the AFL.
Her article reveals she now knows the AFL attempted to manipulate the process in relation to the Essendon supplements saga.
Welcome to the party Ms Panahi.
Those of us who have read Chip Le Grandâs excellent book, the Straight Dope, Michael Warnerâs reporting in the Herald Sun and the transcripts of the Federal Court case Hird vs. ASADA have known since 2013 that the AFL has never been interested in the truth.
Indeed, it has actively sought to hide the truth to protect its office bearers.
But as the saying goes better late than never.
All Ms Panahi has to do now, on her self-realisation quest, is to have the same revelation about ASADA under its soon to be departing CEO Ben McDevitt.
She runs the line that Mr McDevitt is some kind of white knight on his charger trying to clean up sport. Well the facts show he is quite different.
The facts show outgoing ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt is anything but a white knight, says Allan Hird. Picture: Ray Strange
Let me go through some lines she uses to pump up Mr McDevittâs tyres. Ms Panahi quotes Mr McDevitt as saying: âwe know that hundreds, if not thousands, of injections were given to Essendon players during the course of 2012â.Think about that for a minute. If Mr McDevitt knew the number of injections, why didnât he give an exact figure? Itâs either hundreds or itâs thousands.
Either he knew itâs hundreds or he knew itâs thousands. It canât be both.
Perhaps Mr McDevitt is confusing the number of injections with the sweet coloured sprinkles mums and dads use to make fairy bread.
Ms Panahi relies on the decision of the Court of Arbitration for Sport that found the players had taken Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned under the WADA code to defend Mr McDevitt.
But how did the players get to be tried by CAS? Simply because Mr McDevitt was after convictions not justice.
The CAS decision could never have been made if Australian legal principles had applied.
That is the precise reason why Mr McDevitt did not challenge the decision of the AFL Tribunal comprising two Australian Judges and an eminent barrister that found the players had no case to answer.
The tribunal used Australian legal principles and Australian rules of evidence when it cleared the players of any wrongdoing.
ASADA had the right under the WADA architecture to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision in Australia. But Mr McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence.
Thatâs right, there was no evidence the players had taken TB4.
Ben McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence. Picture: Ray Strange
Instead, ASADA under Mr McDevittâs watch gave WADA $US100,000, use of ASADAâs lawyers and the access to ASADAâs failed tribunal case to have the players tried again before CAS.He knew Australian legal principles and rules of evidence would not apply and he knew the case before CAS would be a fresh trial.
So here we have a highly paid Australian public servant funding the trial of 34 Australians in a foreign court knowing they would not receive Australian justice.
Furthermore, under Australian law, there is a simple but powerful principle, double jeopardy, and this means you canât be tried for the same crime twice.
But the Essendon players were, and Mr McDevitt engineered it that way.
Ms Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true the players did not tell about their injections.
Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.
Many did, and in any case, at the time in 2012, there was no requirement for them to do so. That statement by Mr McDevitt, besides being untrue, was an irrelevant distraction.
The players were charged with taking TB4. Yet there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that TB4 was ever mentioned in any document or conversation to the players.
In fact, the players first heard of TB4 when they were charged with taking it. So, what is the point in Mr McDevitt trying to infer the players had something to hide?
Mr McDevitt has history in making things up to justify his case. In his testimony to senate estimates on March 3, 2016, he said the players did not do any research into the substances they were given. He said all they had to do was look up the website.
Well, many people have done so, including some of the players, and the WADA banned list for 2012 does not list TB4.
So, what would be the point of the players going to the website? The substance they were charged with taking was not listed.
All of this of course calls into question Ms Panahiâs attempt to portray Mr McDevitt as some sort of white knight trying to clean up sport. More likely his aim throughout was convictions, not justice.
My advice to Ms Panahi would be: before jumping in to champion someone, do your research. The corollary is also before trying to impugn the Essendon playersâ reputations, do your research.
Allan Hird is a former Essendon player and father of Essendon great James Hird.
Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.
Is she for real? Has it ever occurred to her that maybe the players genuinely didnât know what they were injected with.
She has a peanut for a brain.
I am so pleased A.Hird has stepped in. He writes very clearly and succinctly. He is a great figurehead for this.
the âwe donât know what we tookâ line was adopted by the club at the insistence of the AFL spin doctor Ms LukinâŚthe players know what they had it was what they agreed to have âŚdo they know it beyond any doubt âŚno âŚunless they had every substance checked before it was injected into themâŚthey trusted they were given what they were told they were givenâŚand tests would indicate that to be the case. So this we donât know what substances they were is crapâŚthey were charged with TB4 a single substance as no evidence of anything else was ever found âŚno TB4 or referrals to it were ever found either but I guess they had to have something to charge them with seeing as how both ASADA & AFL CEOâs put such stock in the âfactâ that Essendon were drug cheatsâŚwell they had to be didnât they?? Hird & the executive wanted a better supplements programâŚDank was at the club do the mathâŚas far as ASADA were concerned 2 plus 2 did equal five âŚit had to because they couldnât prosecute if the answer was 4 âŚIf I were the club Iâd be coming clean about the pressure to say they didnât know what the players had because I would hazard a guess they did.
they wont even try to clear Hirdâs name by telling all who will listen about the reporting structures & job descriptions at the club. No wonder the poor guy ended up in hospital âŚwhy are people so cowardly & weak? âŚ
Helen, your question is actually your answer.
Anyone wanting portfolio budget papers, including sections on ASADA, can access them on the Health site health.gov.au My quick scan did not reveal any reference to Essendon.Stupid government focusing on sick people and hospitals.
And here I was thinking govt can only do one thing at a time.
Oh they can. But just the important ones.
So donât come into the thread if you donât think itâs important.
Ha. I love how a small group of people have hi-jacked this thread for their own purposes and then get all uppity when others donât jump on board their cause or try to put other views across. This thread is about the broader âSagaâ not just for those people who are actively involved in or supporting certain pushes for action. Hereâs a thought, why donât you â â â â off to another thread and leave this thread to the rest of us.
Oh, and I do think that âitâs importantâ. But I doubt that 95% of the population would agree with me. I reckon they think it would be more important for the government to concern themselves with the 602,000 people who will go to see their GP today or the 370 people who will be diagnosed with cancer today or how to continue to keep Australiaâs 92,000 hospital beds openâŚ
Di Natale seems to think it important. He is very active today in Estimates on health issues. I would not be surprised to see him taking a role when Estimates gets to sport, including ASADA.
Anyone wanting portfolio budget papers, including sections on ASADA, can access them on the Health site health.gov.au My quick scan did not reveal any reference to Essendon.Stupid government focusing on sick people and hospitals.
And here I was thinking govt can only do one thing at a time.
Oh they can. But just the important ones.
So donât come into the thread if you donât think itâs important.
Ha. I love how a small group of people have hi-jacked this thread for their own purposes and then get all uppity when others donât jump on board their cause or try to put other views across. This thread is about the broader âSagaâ not just for those people who are actively involved in or supporting certain pushes for action. Hereâs a thought, why donât you â â â â off to another thread and leave this thread to the rest of us.
Oh, and I do think that âitâs importantâ. But I doubt that 95% of the population would agree with me. I reckon they think it would be more important for the government to concern themselves with the 602,000 people who will go to see their GP today or the 370 people who will be diagnosed with cancer today or how to continue to keep Australiaâs 92,000 hospital beds open.âŚ
Unfortunately the government doesnât concern themselves with those things either hahaha.
I just â â â â â â me off that their pants donât actually catch on fire, so I edited it to at least make it look like they did.
all of them have to much hair IMO
Wigs!!
Everything else about them is a lie, so why not their hair?
The big brass at Essendon are hardly likely to say anything now after all this time, they've spent denying whatever it was that was taken???http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/allan-hird-rita-panahi-finally-gets-it-about-the-afl-now-she-needs-to-do-the-same-with-asada/news-story/8fa82d0d2a783099fda49fe8ad681954Allan Hird: Focus needs to be on ASADA as wellAllan Hird, Herald Sun
18 minutes agoTHE penny has finally dropped for Rita Panahi about the AFL.
Her article reveals she now knows the AFL attempted to manipulate the process in relation to the Essendon supplements saga.
Welcome to the party Ms Panahi.
Those of us who have read Chip Le Grandâs excellent book, the Straight Dope, Michael Warnerâs reporting in the Herald Sun and the transcripts of the Federal Court case Hird vs. ASADA have known since 2013 that the AFL has never been interested in the truth.
Indeed, it has actively sought to hide the truth to protect its office bearers.
But as the saying goes better late than never.
All Ms Panahi has to do now, on her self-realisation quest, is to have the same revelation about ASADA under its soon to be departing CEO Ben McDevitt.
She runs the line that Mr McDevitt is some kind of white knight on his charger trying to clean up sport. Well the facts show he is quite different.
The facts show outgoing ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt is anything but a white knight, says Allan Hird. Picture: Ray Strange
Let me go through some lines she uses to pump up Mr McDevittâs tyres. Ms Panahi quotes Mr McDevitt as saying: âwe know that hundreds, if not thousands, of injections were given to Essendon players during the course of 2012â.Think about that for a minute. If Mr McDevitt knew the number of injections, why didnât he give an exact figure? Itâs either hundreds or itâs thousands.
Either he knew itâs hundreds or he knew itâs thousands. It canât be both.
Perhaps Mr McDevitt is confusing the number of injections with the sweet coloured sprinkles mums and dads use to make fairy bread.
Ms Panahi relies on the decision of the Court of Arbitration for Sport that found the players had taken Thymosin Beta 4, a substance banned under the WADA code to defend Mr McDevitt.
But how did the players get to be tried by CAS? Simply because Mr McDevitt was after convictions not justice.
The CAS decision could never have been made if Australian legal principles had applied.
That is the precise reason why Mr McDevitt did not challenge the decision of the AFL Tribunal comprising two Australian Judges and an eminent barrister that found the players had no case to answer.
The tribunal used Australian legal principles and Australian rules of evidence when it cleared the players of any wrongdoing.
ASADA had the right under the WADA architecture to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision in Australia. But Mr McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence.
Thatâs right, there was no evidence the players had taken TB4.
Ben McDevitt knew that he would lose because the case he ran before the tribunal had been thrown out because of lack of evidence. Picture: Ray Strange
Instead, ASADA under Mr McDevittâs watch gave WADA $US100,000, use of ASADAâs lawyers and the access to ASADAâs failed tribunal case to have the players tried again before CAS.He knew Australian legal principles and rules of evidence would not apply and he knew the case before CAS would be a fresh trial.
So here we have a highly paid Australian public servant funding the trial of 34 Australians in a foreign court knowing they would not receive Australian justice.
Furthermore, under Australian law, there is a simple but powerful principle, double jeopardy, and this means you canât be tried for the same crime twice.
But the Essendon players were, and Mr McDevitt engineered it that way.
Ms Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true the players did not tell about their injections.
Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.
Many did, and in any case, at the time in 2012, there was no requirement for them to do so. That statement by Mr McDevitt, besides being untrue, was an irrelevant distraction.
The players were charged with taking TB4. Yet there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that TB4 was ever mentioned in any document or conversation to the players.
In fact, the players first heard of TB4 when they were charged with taking it. So, what is the point in Mr McDevitt trying to infer the players had something to hide?
Mr McDevitt has history in making things up to justify his case. In his testimony to senate estimates on March 3, 2016, he said the players did not do any research into the substances they were given. He said all they had to do was look up the website.
Well, many people have done so, including some of the players, and the WADA banned list for 2012 does not list TB4.
So, what would be the point of the players going to the website? The substance they were charged with taking was not listed.
All of this of course calls into question Ms Panahiâs attempt to portray Mr McDevitt as some sort of white knight trying to clean up sport. More likely his aim throughout was convictions, not justice.
My advice to Ms Panahi would be: before jumping in to champion someone, do your research. The corollary is also before trying to impugn the Essendon playersâ reputations, do your research.
Allan Hird is a former Essendon player and father of Essendon great James Hird.
Rita Panahi accepts Mr McDevittâs line that the players did not reveal the injections they had as an indication of their guilt. It is simply not true.
Is she for real? Has it ever occurred to her that maybe the players genuinely didnât know what they were injected with.
She has a peanut for a brain.
I am so pleased A.Hird has stepped in. He writes very clearly and succinctly. He is a great figurehead for this.
the âwe donât know what we tookâ line was adopted by the club at the insistence of the AFL spin doctor Ms LukinâŚthe players know what they had it was what they agreed to have âŚdo they know it beyond any doubt âŚno âŚunless they had every substance checked before it was injected into themâŚthey trusted they were given what they were told they were givenâŚand tests would indicate that to be the case. So this we donât know what substances they were is crapâŚthey were charged with TB4 a single substance as no evidence of anything else was ever found âŚno TB4 or referrals to it were ever found either but I guess they had to have something to charge them with seeing as how both ASADA & AFL CEOâs put such stock in the âfactâ that Essendon were drug cheatsâŚwell they had to be didnât they?? Hird & the executive wanted a better supplements programâŚDank was at the club do the mathâŚas far as ASADA were concerned 2 plus 2 did equal five âŚit had to because they couldnât prosecute if the answer was 4 âŚIf I were the club Iâd be coming clean about the pressure to say they didnât know what the players had because I would hazard a guess they did.
they wont even try to clear Hirdâs name by telling all who will listen about the reporting structures & job descriptions at the club. No wonder the poor guy ended up in hospital âŚwhy are people so cowardly & weak? âŚ
Cant we all just get back to talking about the real issues....is AOD banned or not?
Hard to say. Itâs a very legal case.
I just â â â â â â me off that their pants donât actually catch on fire, so I edited it to at least make it look like they did.
all of them have to much hair IMO
Wigs!!
Ben might take a leaf out of that SKY doctor who is too ill to attend the UK inquiry. The UK Committee said it was prepared to take written evidence or reschedule.
Stabby has suggested that questions on notice might be a feature of Estimates.
How is gumbys back going? Best 22?