I’m on the brink here.
I don’t want to go down this rabbit hole again today…I might…I shouldn’t…just come off night shift so…
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Did anyone hear the RN breakfast clip? It’s not gone up on their site as yet.
If you go to yesterday’s full episode it was around the 1hr 16m mark
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The only thing that would have mattered is if he disclosed who the thymosin supplier was and we were able to obtain invoices from them to confirm. WADA’s case only got up because there was this crucial evidential gap caused by the club’s poor record keeping.
I don’t believe that the motive is to cover up systematic financial theft, although that’s the popular view on here, maybe with ‘Big Dave destroyed all the records’ conspiracy theory coming in 2nd. The theft motive doesn’t fit what I’ve managed to extract from the mountains of interviews and documents. By systematic fraud, I exclude standard corporate practice eg when I was with KPMG, we would buy something for a client for $50 and charge them $100 on their account to “cover our overheads”.
Dank thought he was god, and at one stage all clubs did want his IP. He believed his stuff was magic (he still would) and in his mind that would lead to ample financial reward.
I’ll bet my house that the problem is a quality, supplier or product issue because we know from player testimony he was very poorly organised and more technician than manager.
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I suppose that, given the strict confidentiality of ACC procedures, we will never get any leaks of Dank’s evidence under oath or rumours planted with the media as to the veracity of his testimony.
However, TB4 may not even have come up in that testimony, as it was only tangential and came up late in the piece, with ASADA not even being aware of its WADA status ( as clear from FOI records). It is clear that ASADA - or any other AD agency - had never previously tracked TB4 use in sport.
ASADA had assumed that Dank was dealing the same big ticket drugs to Essendon as elsewhere and that Essendon would be a match for the Cronulla charges.
However it fell flat and was forced back on AOD, that flopped and only TB4 was left. From a political perspective, it had to get an AFL match for NRL, the two biggest Australian sports. ASADA failed to get a strike with TB4 with that individual NRL player in another NRL team ( even though it wa used as about the most significant strand at CAS)
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Everyone has gone over scenarios galore
The key one it seems was alignment with bikies and perhaps using legitimate buyers that don’t attract attention (essendon) and charging them at a higher cost but then also underneath that getting other packages/ deliveries of things that were meant to go elsewhere and making money off that also.
So the invoicing/supply chain was seemingly never going to be done in a legitimate way. And Alavi caught up in all of that.
And thus Dank then also has the threats accordingly from involved in the side show. Been shot at etc. Charters also put under pressure (house trashed etc) to make the situation go away and see no blow back on those wanting to avoid it.
…
Dank and co also had that ex Macquarie bank director overcharged for something he didn’t ever get, and then refunded on. Playing at an individual level wouldn’t have been able to do anywhere near as much as what could happen for a team sport’s level with financial funny business.
Moreso when EFC was clearly very poorly run from adminstration wise. How many invoices was Hamilton or the larger ones Robson just signing off on without proper scrutiny? A lot it seems.
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A guy who peddled in wada banned supplements ran our sports science department…
Enough to get you into massive trouble, which it did.
I think thats the short answer. One can make up a million permutations, all bad about what may have happened once that fact was established.
Its just a matter of how grey the situation is painted. Answer plenty.
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That’s absolute garbage.
Every word of it.
I’m happy to tear it down sentence by sentence, but for now…that’s just a ■■■■■■ POV.
Let me help you out.
Imagine Essendon is a Liberal politician and Dank is a corrupt donor.
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Danks, a bit dodgy, and there is not a lot of a paper trail.
having staff getting injections/supplements from him as well, wasn’t good management either.
maybe these guys are a bit superficial, and everyone was doing it, even Goody, etc.
I was running with a lady today, and here legs were very brown, someone enquired about the nice tan and she was like oh I applied this last night, the tan drops a couple of kilos off the legs without the effort.
The ABC’s 7.30 has obtained text messages between Goodwin and Dank which detail Goodwin repeatedly asking the sports scientist to keep him personally supplied with “the good stuff”.
In a text message sent by Goodwin to Dank at the end of June 2012, Goodwin wrote to Dank “Don’t forget the good gear today buddy.”
Then on July 5, 2012, Goodwin again wrote to Dank, “Don’t forget the good gear mate.”
Six days later, Goodwin wrote to Dank, “Bring some of the good stuff in buddy.”
The next day, on July 12, 2012, Goodwin wrote to Dank “Sorry mate forgot to see you yesterday. Am heading to Adelaide today can you please bring some of the good stuff in buddy.”
Dank has told 7.30 that the “the good stuff” is a reference to Hexarelin.
On Saturday 7.30 contacted Goodwin, who declined to comment, citing ASADA’s current investigation.
Obtained?
They sequestered terabytes of data.
Emails.
Texts.
The number of times TB4 or Beta or any conceivable other name for it was mentioned?
Zero.
Zeeeeeeeeeeeero.
And this is before it was ‘banned.’
Again, when Essendon said thymosin they meant TB4, when Melbourne said thymosin they meant thymosin.
That is an undeniable fact.
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Justice For The 34
THYMOMODULIN or THYMOSIN BETA 4?
- ASADA is a regulator that regulates using the WADA codes.
1.1. In the Essendon case the question was simple. Were the players administered with
(1) THYMOSIN BETA 4 a substance WADA deemed illegal or
(2) THYMOMODULIN a substance WADA deemed legal.
1.2. There were no conclusive samples that proved the players used either of the substances, no conclusive documentary evidence, and no testimony as required under the Comfortable
Satisfaction Standard of the Court of Arbitration of Sport (CAS).
1.3. The CAS relied on electronic texts and other circumstantial evidence.
- On April 18 2013, ABC’s 7.30 broadcast a program that referred to a supplement program at the Melbourne Football Club.
(http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3740340.htm) 2.1. Some extracts from the program
“But 7.30 has obtained a series of text messages spanning more than six months between Dank and Melbourne’s club doctor Dan Bates.The messages begin in mid-2012 when Dank offered his services to Bates.In early December, the texts show that a supplements regime was up and running at Melbourne. Among the text messages
Bates to Dank
Sorry you still up? Trengrove is not going to Darwin so I don’t need the THYMOMODULIN
for tomorrow.
Bates to Dank
When can we book guys for the injections? We will need to give them times. Dan.
Bates to Dank
Mate, what is the final word on the injections. I have players calling me for confirmation.
Dank to Bates
Sorry mate. In a meeting. Spoke to ASADA. No problems. They will confirm by email. No issues their end.
2.2. The texts show Dank and Bates discussed a wide range of substances including AOD- 9604, Cerebrolysin and Thymomodulin. By the end of January, Dank had made his mark on the Demons. Some players were beginning to request his treatments. The next day a timetable for injections was set out for seven players. The texts continued until February 5 when Dank was preparing to meet Bates. A few hours later, the last text between Dank and Bates was sent.”
2.3. The ABC’s program is a secondary source but, as it has not been denied by ASADA, we can assume the texts to be accurate.
- The relevance of text messages as evidence
3.1. Para. 118 of the CAS Panel’s judgment of January 12 2016
“The Panel placed greater weight on material evidence, including electronic communications, contemporary to the events to which they related.”
3.2. The CAS used more than 20 text messages to substantiate their findings.
- Equivalent standard of proof
4.1. Para. 129 (vi) of the CAS Panel’s judgment of January 12 2016
“In a broadcast dated 2 May 2013 by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (which preceded any interview)… it is not clear from the text which form of THYMOSIN was used’.
4.2. Therefore, the text messages in the ABC’s broadcast program of April 18 2013 were an equivalent standard of proof.
- Compliance
5.1. ASADA has not penalised the Melbourne Football Club, its players or officials.
5.2. ASADA and WADA must therefore have been satisfied that the Melbourne players were injected with substances compliant with the code, and not THYMOSIN BETA 4.
5.3. They were satisfied the substance was THYMOMODULIN, not THYMOSIN BETA 4.
5.4. ASADA concluded that Dank used THYMOMODULIN at Melbourne.
- There are therefore only two possibilities
H1: Dank used THYMOMODULIN at both Essendon and Melbourne or
H2: Dank switched from THYMOSIN BETA 4 at Essendon to THYMOMODULIN at Melbourne.
- It is likely that Dank did not switch
7.1. There are no email messages from Dank to ASADA involving THYMOSIN BETA 4
and no text messages involving THYMOSIN BETA 4while Dank was at Essendon.
7.2. No reference to THYMOSIN BETA 4 was found from any data recovered at Essendon.
7.3. The only evidence of inquiries to ASADA about THYMOSIN is an email exchange from Dr Stephen Watt (ASADA) to WADA on July 3 2012 inquiring about the status of THYMOMODULIN.
7.4. Dank repeatedly referred to the use of THYMOSIN at Essendon in terms of a boost to the immune system consistent with THYMOMODULIN. In his interview with the Age used by the CAS, he stated
“Well, the point is that there is a degree of immunosuppression after a game or a hard training week, right. Often times the ability to back up next week is decreased by the hit on the immune system.”
THYMOMODULIN is associated with boosts to the immune system (see University of Michigan Health information http://www.uofmhealth.org/health-library/hn-2916001)
THYMOSIN BETA 4 is associated principally with the repair of tissue (see Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17947588)
7.5. The most credible witness on the Essendon program was Jobe Watson. On national television on June 24 2013, he admitted to being injected with AOD 9604, at the time uncertain as to WADA compliant. No cheat would ever so self-incriminate. In an article in The Australian, 28/12/2013, it was revealed that
“Essendon captain Jobe Watson told ASADA he was injected with a legal form of THYMOSIN. Watson’s testimony was not included in ASADA’s interim report. In further evidence to ASADA, Watson described the bottle from which Dank administered his injection. His description is understood to match a bottle of THYMOMODULIN stored in Dank’s fridge at Essendon. Neither Watson’s evidence about the bottle nor the photograph were included in the 400-page interim report, which also does not mention an electronic spreadsheet obtained by Essendon officials from Dank’s computer showing a schedule of THYMOMODULIN injections given to Essendon players.”
7.6. The only documented evidence seems to support the use of THYMOMODULIN at Essendon. As an example, a photograph of a vial of substance at Essendon in 2012 clearly shows the label THYMOMODULIN (HeraldSun, November 17 2014).
7.7. In preliminary but not conclusive tests applied to the players at Essendon, only 2 out of 34 players showed elevated levels of THYMOSIN BETA 4. As THYMOSIN BETA 4 is endogenous to the body, this is consistent with variation across individuals, and not consistent with an exogenous program of THYMOSIN BETA 4 injections. The samples from other AFL clubs showed even higher levels of THYMOSIN BETA 4.
(The Australian, November 14 2015)
7.7. There was no reason for Dank to switch programs. If he had used THYMOSIN BETA 4, he would only switch if it did not work or if he was told it was prohibited. There is no evidence of either in text messages. Otherwise, ASADA would have evidenced it. As the CAS observed, Essendon won 8 out of the first 9 games in 2013. And Dank remarked in an interview with the Age reported in June 2013
“Well apart from the fact they won 11 out of their first 14, right, and we did regular bloods [blood tests] . . . at the end of the day I was very happy with the science.”
7.8. Dank has stated that “He basically took the Bombers’ supplement blueprint to the Demons including THYMOMODULIN (HeraldSun August 11, 2015).
7.9. Neither ASADA, WADA or the CAS referenced the text messages at Melbourne, or the ABC program on April 18 2013. Why not? Yet the CAS did reference the ABC program less than one month later on 2 May 2013. The text messages at Melbourne and the ABC program weakened the case that Dank used THYMOSIN BETA 4 at Essendon.
7.10. If ASADA believed Dank used THYMOMODULIN at Melbourne, why did they not believe Dank used THYMOMODULIN at Essendon?
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And just in case anyone’s wondering where my motivation’s coming from, it’s not Essendon.
Seriously, ■■■■ Essendon.
■■■■ them with a rusty 18” ■■■■■ in a broken canoe from here to London.
I’m here for Watson.
I’m here for NLM.
I’m here for Howett.
And the rest.
And then, then, I’m here for Hird.
And that’s pretty much it.
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[quote=“Houli_Dooli, post:696, topic:17693”]
7.10. If ASADA believed Dank used THYMOMODULIN at Melbourne, why did they not believe Dank used THYMOMODULIN at Essendon?
[/quote]
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Thank you for reminding me of another liar.
The Melbourne Football Club.
You know, if any of the Essendon defence was caught in a lie even once…
But ■■■■ me,
The Melbourne Football Club were caught in a lie.
The AFL staffer was caught in a lie.
The AFL CEO was caught in a lie.
The head of ASADA was caught in a lie.
The Federal Minister wasn’t caught in a lie,
she just forgot her diary and then everything else that was relevant.
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I think the phrase you are searching for is “nonsense on stilts”.
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What could happen if they are cleared?
Could essendon sue asada,wada and the afl? Along with every other flog that had their 2 cents for defamation.
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we will never be cleared. if it was a worldwide sport, it may gain traction. but we are a tiny fish in a massive ocean that nobody cares about.
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