Surprises me the Libs don't go with stop the drownings as the slogan / mantra.
I like how their is such an ALP outrage re burnt hands or a few hundred grand on boats and not getting reality TV on the high seas for their political point scoring. But drownings on their watch were whatevs.
I dont like liberal or labour but ALP ■■■■■■■■ on this issue is somewhat galling.
If the drownings are down then Libs have the runs on the board here.
I lost a lot of respect for the ALP over this one under Gillard & Rudd.
A lot. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
It beggars belief that JBomber who I know has at least half a brain can actually believe the crap he spouts. Windy Dill you are no better.
Why do you guys have this fear and loathing of refugees? Are you racists or religious bigots? I just don't get it and if you do any research you will see all the myths surroundings refugees, their benefits and what they go through to escape a ■■■■ poor life.
Maybe they pay $10,000 for a boat trip from Indonesia, so what! Our immigration requirements are so much BS that they cannot catch a plane without papers. I have been to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Sri Lanka; there is little justice, rule of law and passports don't exist to most people. So you escape across borders, pay smugglers and try to escape death the best ways you can.
What about compassion, that Aussie fair go and love of our brothers and sisters. Nah I forgot, you are selfish, hateful white, Anglos, Christian who fear everyone who wants a little bit of what you have by a quirk of birth.
But once they are out of these areas, why do they keep coming to Australia?
Why not settle in India or Malaysia or Indonesia if their prime concern is safety for themselves and their families?
I neither hate nor fear people from other countries, races, religions etc but that doesn't mean I have to love everyone who wants to come here and as for your appeal to compassion and the Aussie fair go....stop playing with the heartstrings and trying to justify your point of view with emotional outbursts.
I've also been to Iran and Pakistan and have absolutely no desire to live in either country but the fact that people want out doesn't mean we have to take them in.
What would you guys do if you were the ones in power? Genuine question.
Bring them to Australia, vet them, let them stay or move them on. Do it quickly, do it, properly. And end the political point scoring via fear mongering. Seriously, there are more students overstaying their visas every year than there are of these people.
How do you move them on & to where? A big issue we already have in processing boat arrivals is that they destroy their identification. Strangely many arrive with the exact same story as the boats before them & have thrown their passports (the ones they required to fly to Indonesia) overboard. This means that its extremely difficult to determine with certainty who they are, where they are from & if their story has any legitimacy. Even when they have been determined to not be genuine we have the expensive & exhaustive process of court proceedings to delay moving them on. I believe the onus should be on the asylum seeker to show evidence of their claims.
Maybe its niave of me but I would think that if I was genuinely from say Afghanistan & was fleeing persecution (what does that actually mean) then surely I would keep my passport to at least prove where I was from & allow some background checks to support my story. Of coure on the other hand if I was simply a person looking to circumvent Australia's immigration queues then any documents that showed I wasn't from afghanistan & have no reason to seek asylum woudl be overboard in a flash.
i'm sure everyone in afghanistan has a passport.
Everyone who flies to Indonesia does - thats kinda the point.
It beggars belief that JBomber who I know has at least half a brain can actually believe the crap he spouts. Windy Dill you are no better.
Why do you guys have this fear and loathing of refugees? Are you racists or religious bigots? I just don't get it and if you do any research you will see all the myths surroundings refugees, their benefits and what they go through to escape a ■■■■ poor life.
Maybe they pay $10,000 for a boat trip from Indonesia, so what! Our immigration requirements are so much BS that they cannot catch a plane without papers. I have been to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Sri Lanka; there is little justice, rule of law and passports don't exist to most people. So you escape across borders, pay smugglers and try to escape death the best ways you can.
What about compassion, that Aussie fair go and love of our brothers and sisters. Nah I forgot, you are selfish, hateful white, Anglos, Christian who fear everyone who wants a little bit of what you have by a quirk of birth.
But once they are out of these areas, why do they keep coming to Australia?
Why not settle in India or Malaysia or Indonesia if their prime concern is safety for themselves and their families?
I neither hate nor fear people from other countries, races, religions etc but that doesn't mean I have to love everyone who wants to come here and as for your appeal to compassion and the Aussie fair go....stop playing with the heartstrings and trying to justify your point of view with emotional outbursts.
I've also been to Iran and Pakistan and have absolutely no desire to live in either country but the fact that people want out doesn't mean we have to take them in.
As I said earlier. this is my one reservation.
Having said that, 'illegal' boat arrivals are more deserving, are far fewer in number, and apart from the ridiculous send in an arm of our military response cost Australians FAR less.
I'm not sure if this has been covered in this (these) discussion(s) before but the issue I always struggle with is if people claiming to be genuine refugees from persecution, terror etc manage to successfully leave their country of origin behind and their main issue is the previously mentioned persecution, then why do they need to continue the dangerous journey to Australia.
If you're coming from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Sudan etc and you make it to, let's say, Indonesia...then surely you have succeeded in your endeavours to escape the issues that caused you to flee in the first place.
Indonesia is a relatively stable country (especially when compared to the previously mentioned countries) so why do they "need" to come to Australia?
Why not settle there?
Or any of the other countries they ventured through on the way here?
we have jobs. I will bet my left nut everyone on those boats wants to work, far more per captia than anyone coming in legally from NZ does at the moment.
It beggars belief that JBomber who I know has at least half a brain can actually believe the crap he spouts. Windy Dill you are no better.
Why do you guys have this fear and loathing of refugees? Are you racists or religious bigots? I just don't get it and if you do any research you will see all the myths surroundings refugees, their benefits and what they go through to escape a ■■■■ poor life.
Maybe they pay $10,000 for a boat trip from Indonesia, so what! Our immigration requirements are so much BS that they cannot catch a plane without papers. I have been to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Sri Lanka; there is little justice, rule of law and passports don't exist to most people. So you escape across borders, pay smugglers and try to escape death the best ways you can.
What about compassion, that Aussie fair go and love of our brothers and sisters. Nah I forgot, you are selfish, hateful white, Anglos, Christian who fear everyone who wants a little bit of what you have by a quirk of birth.
But once they are out of these areas, why do they keep coming to Australia?
Why not settle in India or Malaysia or Indonesia if their prime concern is safety for themselves and their families?
I neither hate nor fear people from other countries, races, religions etc but that doesn't mean I have to love everyone who wants to come here and as for your appeal to compassion and the Aussie fair go....stop playing with the heartstrings and trying to justify your point of view with emotional outbursts.
I've also been to Iran and Pakistan and have absolutely no desire to live in either country but the fact that people want out doesn't mean we have to take them in.
As I said earlier. this is my one reservation.
Having said that, 'illegal' boat arrivals are more deserving, are far fewer in number, and apart from the ridiculous send in an arm of our military response cost Australians FAR less.
Far less than what? The ALP's last budget estimates were 2.9 billion on asylum seekers based 40,000 cases in the system. Do you think the Chinese sex workers next to the Dentists on Maroondah hwy were costing the country more than 70K per year each? how many times did you visit? I'm also curious where you get this idea that boat arrivals are far less than visa overstayers & cost less. The estimates I found were that approx 20,000 people per year overstay their visas conditions but less than half (8320 for 2012) were forcibly sent home at an average cost of about $5000ea to the Gvt. The majority of other cases were simply holiday overstays of a matter of days who left of their own accord & expense. The ALP released a statement last year that 99% of the more than 4.8 million temporary entrants complied with their requirement to leave. I find no reason to discredit that claim.
But Wim - it makes sense. They could just fly here, safely and in comfort, but they don't have ID they need to get into the country. And they don't have ID because they throw it overboard when they hop on the boat. And there is no contradiction there at all.
Getting Visa's is an issue. Outside of 30 countries in the world who are visa on arrival, the others find it challenging to get a tourist visa. That's your reason.
Why do you guys have this fear and loathing of refugees? Are you racists or religious bigots?
you are selfish, hateful white, Anglos, Christian who fear everyone who wants a little bit of what you have by a quirk of birth.
The irony of those two statements cannot be missed by even you surely?
there is no irony, claiming reverse racism in deflecting your racism is only seen as scountrilistic, not ironic
By far, and I mean ******* far, the most illegal immigrants are Chinese.
And if you actually give a rats ■■■■ about illegal immigration and people traders, then raid the brothels. All of them.
Let me know how many Iranians you find.
Brothels are usually staffed by overseas students on student visas and some from countries that have reciprocal work arrangements with OZ, like Singapore,Hong Kong and Korea. It's safe to say most are legal.
It beggars belief that JBomber who I know has at least half a brain can actually believe the crap he spouts. Windy Dill you are no better.
Why do you guys have this fear and loathing of refugees? Are you racists or religious bigots? I just don't get it and if you do any research you will see all the myths surroundings refugees, their benefits and what they go through to escape a ■■■■ poor life.
Maybe they pay $10,000 for a boat trip from Indonesia, so what! Our immigration requirements are so much BS that they cannot catch a plane without papers. I have been to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Sri Lanka; there is little justice, rule of law and passports don't exist to most people. So you escape across borders, pay smugglers and try to escape death the best ways you can.
What about compassion, that Aussie fair go and love of our brothers and sisters. Nah I forgot, you are selfish, hateful white, Anglos, Christian who fear everyone who wants a little bit of what you have by a quirk of birth.
But once they are out of these areas, why do they keep coming to Australia?
Why not settle in India or Malaysia or Indonesia if their prime concern is safety for themselves and their families?
I neither hate nor fear people from other countries, races, religions etc but that doesn't mean I have to love everyone who wants to come here and as for your appeal to compassion and the Aussie fair go....stop playing with the heartstrings and trying to justify your point of view with emotional outbursts.
I've also been to Iran and Pakistan and have absolutely no desire to live in either country but the fact that people want out doesn't mean we have to take them in.
Because Australia has a fantastic reputation as a country to start a new life. Good standard of living,relative safety,adequate safety net etc.etc.etc. I think its a glowing endorsement of Australia as a country.
I am more interested in the expensive Permanent Visa's where you need $5m to be eligible. 65 were granted in 2012/2013 and 90% were from Mainland China.
Actually its interesting that you get few Indonesian's applying for refugee status or sneaking into OZ. It's not like Mexico and the USA.
Heard something interesting on the radio the other day about some Syrian refugees who'd made it to Bulgaria (via Turkey). Their plan was to stay there and return once things settled down which hasn't happened. They started with 'enough' money to get by and look after themselves, however now it's all ran out they're basically begging for food, shoes, any kind of aid.
I found it interesting. I bet if they'd made it to Australia they'd be put in a camp and left there until it was safe for them to go home. I'm sure there is a spectrum of people who are seeking refuge*. Most, I think, would just be solving one problem at a time with the funds and visas available to them until they end up in a settled, and hopefully better environment.
*The phrase 'people who are seeking refuge' triggers a different emotional response than 'refugee'. Funny that.
It beggars belief that JBomber who I know has at least half a brain can actually believe the crap he spouts. Windy Dill you are no better.
Why do you guys have this fear and loathing of refugees? Are you racists or religious bigots? I just don't get it and if you do any research you will see all the myths surroundings refugees, their benefits and what they go through to escape a ■■■■ poor life.
Maybe they pay $10,000 for a boat trip from Indonesia, so what! Our immigration requirements are so much BS that they cannot catch a plane without papers. I have been to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Sri Lanka; there is little justice, rule of law and passports don't exist to most people. So you escape across borders, pay smugglers and try to escape death the best ways you can.
What about compassion, that Aussie fair go and love of our brothers and sisters. Nah I forgot, you are selfish, hateful white, Anglos, Christian who fear everyone who wants a little bit of what you have by a quirk of birth.
But once they are out of these areas, why do they keep coming to Australia?
Why not settle in India or Malaysia or Indonesia if their prime concern is safety for themselves and their families?
I neither hate nor fear people from other countries, races, religions etc but that doesn't mean I have to love everyone who wants to come here and as for your appeal to compassion and the Aussie fair go....stop playing with the heartstrings and trying to justify your point of view with emotional outbursts.
I've also been to Iran and Pakistan and have absolutely no desire to live in either country but the fact that people want out doesn't mean we have to take them in.
As I said earlier. this is my one reservation.
Having said that, 'illegal' boat arrivals are more deserving, are far fewer in number, and apart from the ridiculous send in an arm of our military response cost Australians FAR less.
Far less than what? The ALP's last budget estimates were 2.9 billion on asylum seekers based 40,000 cases in the system. Do you think the Chinese sex workers next to the Dentists on Maroondah hwy were costing the country more than 70K per year each? how many times did you visit? I'm also curious where you get this idea that boat arrivals are far less than visa overstayers & cost less. The estimates I found were that approx 20,000 people per year overstay their visas conditions but less than half (8320 for 2012) were forcibly sent home at an average cost of about $5000ea to the Gvt. The majority of other cases were simply holiday overstays of a matter of days who left of their own accord & expense. The ALP released a statement last year that 99% of the more than 4.8 million temporary entrants complied with their requirement to leave. I find no reason to discredit that claim.
Are you trying to suggest that sex slavery is a lesser moral issue than people who get onto boats of their own free will and take the risk of drowning?
It beggars belief that JBomber who I know has at least half a brain can actually believe the crap he spouts. Windy Dill you are no better.
Why do you guys have this fear and loathing of refugees? Are you racists or religious bigots? I just don't get it and if you do any research you will see all the myths surroundings refugees, their benefits and what they go through to escape a ■■■■ poor life.
Maybe they pay $10,000 for a boat trip from Indonesia, so what! Our immigration requirements are so much BS that they cannot catch a plane without papers. I have been to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Sri Lanka; there is little justice, rule of law and passports don't exist to most people. So you escape across borders, pay smugglers and try to escape death the best ways you can.
What about compassion, that Aussie fair go and love of our brothers and sisters. Nah I forgot, you are selfish, hateful white, Anglos, Christian who fear everyone who wants a little bit of what you have by a quirk of birth.
But once they are out of these areas, why do they keep coming to Australia?
Why not settle in India or Malaysia or Indonesia if their prime concern is safety for themselves and their families?
I neither hate nor fear people from other countries, races, religions etc but that doesn't mean I have to love everyone who wants to come here and as for your appeal to compassion and the Aussie fair go....stop playing with the heartstrings and trying to justify your point of view with emotional outbursts.
I've also been to Iran and Pakistan and have absolutely no desire to live in either country but the fact that people want out doesn't mean we have to take them in.
As I said earlier. this is my one reservation.
Having said that, 'illegal' boat arrivals are more deserving, are far fewer in number, and apart from the ridiculous send in an arm of our military response cost Australians FAR less.
Far less than what? The ALP's last budget estimates were 2.9 billion on asylum seekers based 40,000 cases in the system. Do you think the Chinese sex workers next to the Dentists on Maroondah hwy were costing the country more than 70K per year each? how many times did you visit? I'm also curious where you get this idea that boat arrivals are far less than visa overstayers & cost less. The estimates I found were that approx 20,000 people per year overstay their visas conditions but less than half (8320 for 2012) were forcibly sent home at an average cost of about $5000ea to the Gvt. The majority of other cases were simply holiday overstays of a matter of days who left of their own accord & expense. The ALP released a statement last year that 99% of the more than 4.8 million temporary entrants complied with their requirement to leave. I find no reason to discredit that claim.
Are you trying to suggest that sex slavery is a lesser moral issue than people who get onto boats of their own free will and take the risk of drowning?
Try going back & reading where that chain of thought came from. Wim was the 1 saying Chinese sex wrokers were costing us more than boat arrivals. We didn't really delve into the slave or willing student aspect. I think Wim was mearly deflecting away from boat arrivals by trying to say Chinese in particular are a bigger issue. I used that specific example as I know its not far from where Wim lives.
It beggars belief that JBomber who I know has at least half a brain can actually believe the crap he spouts. Windy Dill you are no better.
Why do you guys have this fear and loathing of refugees? Are you racists or religious bigots? I just don't get it and if you do any research you will see all the myths surroundings refugees, their benefits and what they go through to escape a ■■■■ poor life.
Maybe they pay $10,000 for a boat trip from Indonesia, so what! Our immigration requirements are so much BS that they cannot catch a plane without papers. I have been to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Sri Lanka; there is little justice, rule of law and passports don't exist to most people. So you escape across borders, pay smugglers and try to escape death the best ways you can.
What about compassion, that Aussie fair go and love of our brothers and sisters. Nah I forgot, you are selfish, hateful white, Anglos, Christian who fear everyone who wants a little bit of what you have by a quirk of birth.
The only comment I have made in this thread is that it is important that policy provides a deterrent to people arriving by boat because of the lives lost at sea. And you think that is an appropriate response?
Between 2008 and 2013 (under Labor's government) about 1000 people died at sea while attempting to reach Australia by boat. Now try to put your politics and prejudices aside and ask yourself: is it more important that we be seen to welcome refugees who arrive by boat or that a deterrent be provided to people smugglers so that loss of human life is curtailed. My view is that protecting the lives of refugees should be paramount when it comes to policy dealing with this issue. If you consider political expediency more important, I suggest that you are quite callous.
You have embarrassed yourself with that rant. You haven‘t addressed a single issue with it, just spouted hateful, odious crap. That reboot, nickyd and benfti “liked†it to me puts them in the same basket as you - unthinking sheep who prefer emotional claptrap to a factual debate based on merit. Personally I have no issue with people seeking asylum in this country. Likewise, it seems you have no issue with human toll caused by people smugglers.