Gee, I forgot it was 3, 20 and Kennedy. Seems like a lot now.
I think it was worth it more off the field than on for Carlton. You need to factor in the marketability, the sponsors, the captaincy and the fact that the trade reignited a fan base that was dropping off the bandwagon at an alarming rate coming into 2007. A lot of memberships were sold off the back of the Judd deal.
Plus, wasn't Judd also a big advocate behind closed doors of moving Fevola on, and hence, rectifying a bad cultural problem within the club that might have hindered future success?
The Judd trade was good for Carlton, although if they could have found a way to do it without Kennedy it would have been better.
The fact that they farked every single other list Management and drafting decision after that, meant they wasted having one of the best players of the modern era.
We were never in the hunt, although sheedy's proposed Lloyd trade would have actually worked well for us.
I believe WC wanted Fev, but Carlton offered Kennedy as an alternative as they didn't want to give away Fev.
The Judd trade was good for Carlton, although if they could have found a way to do it without Kennedy it would have been better.
The fact that they farked every single other list Management and drafting decision after that, meant they wasted having one of the best players of the modern era.
We were never in the hunt, although sheedy's proposed Lloyd trade would have actually worked well for us.
I believe WC wanted Fev, but Carlton offered Kennedy as an alternative as they didn't want to give away Fev.
I have heard that. I hope for Carlton' sake it's not true.
Still, had carlton not wasted pick 11 on McLean, and then used the Fev compo pick on Lucas instead of Talia (or gasp... Carlisle) they may have been in better shape.
Watson over Jack darling was a fark up too, but a few passed on darling.
I think Judd was the right way for them to go, they just stuffed everything else up.
The Judd trade was good for Carlton, although if they could have found a way to do it without Kennedy it would have been better.
The fact that they farked every single other list Management and drafting decision after that, meant they wasted having one of the best players of the modern era.
We were never in the hunt, although sheedy's proposed Lloyd trade would have actually worked well for us.
Agree with this.
If I was a Carlton fan I'd be filthy over how this panned out. With hindsight they were probably only a few kpp‘s short from being serious contenders. Imagine if back in 2007 they had drafted any one of Harry Taylor, Cale Hooker or Tayte Pears.
If you view the Judd trade as a club building exercise, it was a win. Their previous seasons (2002-07) they finished 16th, 15th, 11th, 16th, 16th and 15th. They then went 11th, 7th, 8th, 5th, 10th, 6th. Whilst Judd wasn‘t the only factor in the improvement, he certainly was a chunk. Gave the supporters hope, sold memberships etc etc.
Lloyd - Judd trade: I think it would have been a win for us on field. But trading club champions is a tricky proposition. And I can understand why we didn't.
Agree that trading for Judd was a good move by Carlton and probably the only good move they've made in the last decade apart from Fev for Henderson. He's been great for them and done as much as could be expected.
The proposed Essendon trade (Gumbleton, Myers etc) would have been great value for Essendon, but what would he have actually done for them? Maybe instead of losing games by 100 in the Knights era, it would have been by 80 instead.
The Collingwood trade would be interesting. Imagine a Judd / Swan / Pendlebury / Thomas midfield in 2009 - 11 (they probably don't get Luke Ball in this scenario). Of course, given that the deal was for Ben Reid + picks, I'm still not sure it would have been a good trade. I think the Pies win the flag in 2010 with or without that trade.
Always easier to say with hindsight, but I always thought it wouldn't work as well as what so many thought it would, and was a reason I wasn't to interested in getting judd and was happy we didn't.
Granted as others have pointed out if they had of traded/drafted better who knows what could be now. But Carlton as always, went for the quick fix and threw money at their issues thinking that would solve all their problems, and that he would change the culture of the clubs recent history.
Also think he'd have had the same minimal impact on improving us as a side/club if he'd come here, as Peos said he'd have only been covering the massive cracks in our ageing and declining list.
Judd won't care though (not saying that he should) but he'd done everything footy related at WC, so he came back to vic to set himself up for life after footy, and he'd have made a fortune doing it. I'm just glad it's set back Carlton, and not us.
In hindsight, Judd fought too hard in getting a good deal for westcoast, and carlton payed overs.
If judd wanted success at his new club he should have tried to screw west coast over, and worst case Scenario he would have ended up at the Dees. And if that had happened, im sure other players would have come over to the Dees rather than Hacks like Dawes, Byrnes, Rodan etc, Also might have meant better development of Melbournes mids....however you cant really say that murphy and Gibbs have deloped amazing from number 1 draft pcks at the blues.
I reckon Melbourne's high draft picks would have done much better with Judd.
Maybe enough for them not to be a basket case.
And Gibbs would have been Blease.
Do the Bulldogs win in 2010, losing Grant #5, Ward #19, and maybe McMahon (traded that year for #19)?
Or even take them past St Kilda to a GF?
4 goals they lost by and kicked themselves out of it.
First question - easily. And he would've taken some burden off their other old stagers (Johnson, Boyd, Cooney's hamstrings) who were in their last couple, and maybe made them more attractive to get their key forward* (unsure if Barry was there at that point).
As we know, by the time they sort of fixed the forward line, everything else broke. If they get Judd & Barry on top, and don't fork out for McMahon/McDougall/Brodie Moles/ Aker, they probably win that prelim even if they don't go any further - and look a hell of a lot better over their rebuild. Maybe Harbrow stays, maybe Ward stays, Eade gets another 2, much easier to pension off Eagleton/Cross/Hahn/Gilbee etc. I don't think he was done as a coach FWIW.
Their recruiting has actually been mostly ok (except for, obviously, big forwards.
Eade is a much better tactical coach than Judd probably ever had, would've been more than able to work them into a good side.
* unless he made it harder to get Barry. $$$. Judd ain't flogging taco wrappers for nothing.
working out a st kilda trade is difficult. it certainly would have cost them the McEvoy pick (#9), not sure who or what else. But it most likely would have netted Ross Lyon the flag had he had Judd operating around all of those stoppages. Particularly the drawn grand final.
This is a funny topic as it assumes Carlton were not into him months before he even announced he wanted a trade and it assumes that any club could have realistically matched their brown bag, sorry I mean Visy ambassador, money (and the weird thing is that's not even up for debate, how many months of newspapers did that occupy compaired to our "sorry saga". Pathetic).
Judd was good in the short term for Carlton given how ■■■■■ their list was, it wasn't good for Judd though and given their recruiting it seems he papered over a fair few cracks as well so while it wasn't a clear loss I wouldn't call it a clear win either.
(Oh but Carlton got a brownlow medalist our of it, regardless of the fact he was the umpires pet that year)
I didn't want us to get Judd then, and thought that Carlton gave away far too much to get a hold of him.
At that stage Carlton were trying to build a dynasty around their tanking picks: Murphy, Kennedy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Judd was never going to be able to turn them from ■■■■ into contenders by himself, and was always going to past his prime by the time their kids started to enter theirs.
So ultimately they lost Kennedy, pick 3/Masten, pick 20/?, and Fevola to get Judd. They were less ■■■■ for a while, but now Judd's waning, and Murphy, Gibbs, and Kreuzer are not living up the expectations that Carlton had for them.
I suspect that if they had their time again, they'd keep Kennedy and pick 3, and trade Fevola while he was worth something.
And as much it might look like a good deal for us, in hindsight, to trade Gumbleton, Myers, and Pears for Judd, I don't think that the timing was right for us either. I suspect we're going to get much more value out of Myers and Pears (and maybe Fantasia) inside our "premiership window" than what we would have got from picking up Judd a few years ago.
Gee, I forgot it was 3, 20 and Kennedy. Seems like a lot now.
I think it was worth it more off the field than on for Carlton. You need to factor in the marketability, the sponsors, the captaincy and the fact that the trade reignited a fan base that was dropping off the bandwagon at an alarming rate coming into 2007. A lot of memberships were sold off the back of the Judd deal.
Plus, wasn’t Judd also a big advocate behind closed doors of moving Fevola on, and hence, rectifying a bad cultural problem within the club that might have hindered future success?
Gee l thought it seemed like a lot at the time the deal was made. ln previous drafting coups like that it has paid off handsomely in the past, think Barassi and Kernahan. This time around it was always fraught with danger, not because Judd wasn’t worth it, but because the rest of their list could not sustain the difference between netting a star player and then transforming the rest of the team into genuine flag contenders. ln other words they not only paid overs, but they massively over rated their own list.