The mental health thread

I just wanted to say if there are any Blitzers out there doing it tough at the moment, I hope your doing okay, and someone loves you, and your worthy. You might not be doing okay, but hopefully reading even just a simple message like this is enough to keep you going on a forwards trajectory

We all post here, some of us daily, and NO one truly knows what anyone is going through, so be kind, always, even if it means retracting what you were going to say to a poster here, taking a bit of a dig. I need to remind myself of this too, and I have right now

Im always free for a phonecall, pm or anything In between. Go bombers

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You are a gem WOB.

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This was in this weekend’s The Australian Magazine about depression in footballers.

Breaking point: AFL players speak out

Richard GuilliattSeptember 7, 2019

Tom Boyd as a promising teenage recruit for the Sydney Giants in 2014. Picture: Ryan Pierse/Getty Images

On a sun-drenched winter day in Melbourne’s outer eastern suburbs, a couple of hundred suburbanites have gathered around the footy oval at Morton Park with their kids and dogs to watch two local Aussie rules teams, Norwood and Blackburn, duke it out in the Eastern Football League. Admission at the park entrance is $8, beer and pies are for sale under the scoreboard and there’s a raffle for the home team. “Is Boyd playing?” one Norwood fan asks another as they scan the muddy ground for the familiar sight of their team’s 2m-tall full forward.

Only three months ago, 24-year-old Tom Boyd was earning a million dollars a year as a player in the Western Bulldogs, the AFL team that entered Aussie rules folklore with an impossible victory in the 2016 Grand Final, the club’s first in 62 years. It was Boyd who sealed that win in the final five minutes of the game, scooping up the ball in the centre square and punting an epic 60m kick through the goals in front of 100,000 fans. Then came two years of injury, poor form and withering criticism. Commentators labelled him “the biggest bust in the AFL”; the Herald Sun newspaper conducted a readers’ poll asking “Is Tom Boyd worth $1 million?”; Bulldogs veteran Luke Darcy suggested he should refund some of his salary. The denigration was harsher still in the bearpit of social media, even after Boyd revealed he’d been diagnosed with clinical depression. A fake Tom Boyd Facebook page mocked him; opposition fans hazed him on Instagram as a pampered sook.

On May 16 the Western Bulldogs announced that Boyd was retiring, less than six years after he’d started his career as the AFL’s No. 1 teenage draft pick at the Sydney Giants. When Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge addressed the media the following day, he choked back tears and excoriated those who had dragged down one of the sport’s most promising young stars with their “lack of conscience and drive to be nasty”. Today at this suburban game you can still hear an echo of the abuse Boyd endured, this time from the mouth of a puce-faced Blackburn fan standing behind the goals clutching a succession of beers. “How’d ya drop that?” he jeers, as Boyd fumbles a mark directly in front of him. “Didja walk away from it?” The man’s wife hisses “ Please ” from her fold-up chair, but Puce Face is not to be denied his fun on this sunny afternoon. “He’s out of the AFL… he’s got mental health issues,” he guffaws to his mates. “He pulled the mental health card. See, they’re not allowed to test ’em for drugs if they pull the mental health card.” The bellowed insults continue through to the final quarter, when Puce Face loudly congratulates Boyd’s opponent. “Yer absolutely smashin’ him, Duffy — I’d give you a million dollars if I could,” he brays. “The $6 million man! I don’t think he’s had a kick today.”

Tom Boyd playing for Norwood during an EFL match on June 29. Picture: AAP

Tom Boyd playing for Norwood during an EFL match on June 29. Picture: AAP

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If Boyd hears any of it, he never lets it show. An hour after the game he emerges from the club rooms alone, a bag slung over his shoulder and his head bowed over a mobile phone. Since retiring, he has spoken publicly about his troubles only on his Instagram page, thanking Bulldogs fans for his years at the club and earning more than 10,000 supportive responses. He demurs politely when approached, saying he’s still unsure what he wants to say. He’s considering the idea of an interview with his old team-mate Bob Murphy, who now hosts a show on Fox Footy.

If Boyd does finally talk in detail about the pressures that forced his retirement, it’s likely to be a familiar story. The past five years have seen a growing roll-call of AFL players afflicted with mental health problems, among them Jack Steven (St Kilda), Travis Cloke (Western Bulldogs), Mitch Clark (Geelong), Matthew Broadbent (Port Adelaide), Aaron Hall (North Melbourne) and Collingwood’s Dayne Beams and Alex Fasolo. Buddy Franklin of the Sydney Swans, arguably the game’s biggest star, was unable to play in the 2015 finals because of unspecified issues. Richmond’s tattooed magician Dustin Martin has spoken about the “weird, empty” depression that swept over him after his team won the 2017 premiership and he won the Brownlow Medal.

When North Melbourne player Majak Daw fell from the Bolte Bridge late one night last December, sustaining a fractured pelvis and hip, the issue reached a breaking point. Former Carlton player Jake Edwards, who has admitted attempting suicide, took to social media to angrily demand that the industry wake up. Retired North Melbourne player Wayne Schwass, who has campaigned on the issue since revealing his own depression 13 years ago, likewise excoriated the AFL. Last month, the AFL responded by appointing clinical psychologist Dr Kate Hall as its newly created head of mental health and wellbeing, assisted by Dr Ranjit Menon as the code’s chief psychiatrist. One question they’ll surely need to explore is how mental health became the No. 1 crisis issue in the nation’s most popular sporting spectacle. Are players simply talking more openly about a problem that has long bubbled beneath the surface, or do the AFL’s troubles offer a warning about the way big money and new media are transforming sport?

Hawthorn vice-captain Nathan Thompson fronts the media in 2004 to discuss his battle with depression. Picture: Craig Borrow

Hawthorn vice-captain Nathan Thompson fronts the media in 2004 to discuss his battle with depression. Picture: Craig Borrow

In May 2004, Hawthorn Football Club ­summoned Melbourne’s sports media to its headquarters at Glenferrie Oval for an unusual Wednesday afternoon press conference. Facing the cameras that day was the team’s vice-captain, Nathan Thompson, a 26-year-old who stood 196cm tall and was Hawthorn’s leading goalkicker. Flanking him were his coach, Peter Schwab, captain Shane Crawford and a woman few recognised — Jane Burns from the mental illness awareness organisation Beyond Blue. Most of the gathered journos knew why they were there, thanks to a television report the night before, but many were still flummoxed to hear Thompson confirm the news: he’d been diagnosed with clinical depression and was in the care of a psychiatrist.

“I’ve been low — really, really low,” he said. “It’s not just a week-by-week thing; it’s more a day-by-day or minute-by-minute thing.” Two weeks earlier, Hawthorn had announced he couldn’t play because of an unspecified illness. In fact, he’d had a total breakdown during training, collapsing on a bench and finding himself unable to get up.

This was not a story familiar to AFL fans or the sports media. Athletes had spoken in the past about the depression that afflicted them after retirement — Geelong football legend Gary Ablett had recently admitted he plunged into drug addiction after he stopped playing — but Nathan Thompson was still in the prime of his career. He earned more than $300,000 a year and bought his first home at age 22. It seemed unthinkable that he might be lying awake at night, ruminating on his anxieties until he was bathed in sweat, plagued by suicidal thoughts and perversely hoping a catastrophic injury might end his career.

Thompson went on to play for another four years and become a campaigner on mental health, cautioning athletes — particularly men — to talk about the stress and self-doubts they experience and seek help before they spiral into depression. Two years after Thompson went public, Wayne Schwass revealed he had spent his glory years at North Melbourne Football Club suffering panic attacks, insomnia and suicidal thoughts. Other athletes who have spoken out in recent years include Olympic swimmers Michael Phelps and Ian Thorpe, cricketers Andrew Flintoff, Moises Henriques and Shaun Tait and rugby league players Darius Boyd, Eric Grothe and Greg Inglis.

The fact that elite competitive sport can be stressful is hardly a revelation; those who step into its arena grapple with physical injury, extreme highs and lows and the constant spectre of public failure. Even so, the sheer number of AFL players who have retired or taken leave from the game due to mental stress has been striking.

Melbourne psychiatrist Dr Adam Deacon has been treating AFL players for more than a decade and while he acknowledges it’s unclear whether they suffer mental illness in disproportionate numbers, he says the stories they tell are strikingly similar. Deacon likens it to a syndrome, one that stems in large part from the highly geared nature of professional sport and the particular intensity of AFL football worship. Young men, he points out, are the demographic most at risk of mental illness, and the AFL academy system recruits them as teenagers into an ultra-competitive environment in which they become a focus of intense scrutiny. By the time they’re 18, the freewheeling fun they found in footy may already have been replaced by the relentless 7am-to-4pm focus of fighting to retain a spot in the team.

Adam Deacon. Picture: supplied

Adam Deacon. Picture: supplied

“A football club is a unique workplace,” says Deacon. “In most jobs, employees will undergo a performance review perhaps once or twice a year, but AFL footballers are performance-reviewed most days, sometimes several times a day by various staff. They are constantly being managed; there’s a high level of scrutiny on their physical states, their emotional states and performance, which can lead to heightened levels of self-­consciousness and self-criticism. Then add that in any given week there are 45 players eligible for 22 playing positions in the seniors team. Most people go to work knowing they’ll be secure in their role, but many of these guys find out week to week whether they will get to do the job that can shape their sense of self-worth. So their sense of themselves is constantly challenged.

“And that’s just the baseline. On top of that is the burden of media commentary, social media and the football public, which is often critical of them. There’s an unusual level of attention given to them, which is absorbed by them and can lead to psychological strain.”

In late 2016, Collingwood Football Club hired Deacon as its team psychiatrist two days a week, the first such appointment in the club’s history. Months earlier, Collingwood defender Jonathon Marsh had suffered a psychological breakdown at the end of the final game of the season, a one-point loss to Hawthorn at the Melbourne Cricket Ground that left him sobbing uncontrollably in the dressing room. Marsh was only 21, and had been undergoing treatment for depression and insomnia for more than a year. Later that year he announced he was retiring from the game and returning home to Western Australia.

Marsh has since revived his footy career at St Kilda and opened up about the events that led to his breakdown. He doesn’t identify any particular triggers and says he has many great memories of his time at Collingwood, but his account mirrors many of Deacon’s observations. A country boy from Margaret River, Marsh was recruited at 17 to the WAFL team East Fremantle, where his grandfather Ray Sorrell had been a legend in the 1950s and 1960s. “It’s pretty early on to be scrutinised,” he acknowledges. “There was a phase there where I wasn’t playing good football and there was a chance I’d get dropped and have to go back to Margaret River. It’s so stressful: I’m 17, I’m supposed to be enjoying playing, and already I’m just thinking about week-in, week-out team selection. But it’s one of those things you have to get used to, I guess, because as soon as you get into a league team in the WAFL or SAFL or AFL, you’ve got to hold your spot every week.”

Jonathon Marsh in 2013. Picture: Michael Dodge/Getty Images

Jonathon Marsh in 2013. Picture: Michael Dodge/Getty Images

At 18, when he flew east to join Collingwood, Marsh was 194cm tall and could sprint 20m in 2.78 seconds. Still, that only qualified him as the AFL’s 77th draft pick selection, and it was nearly two years before he got a seniors game. By then the euphoria of living the AFL dream was already being undermined by a gnawing feeling that at first seemed like homesickness but became a deeper malaise, that “weird empty feeling” Dustin Martin described. “The first half of 2015 I was just desperate to get into the seniors side, and once I was in, I just wasn’t enjoying it,” he recalls. His form wasn’t as consistent as he wanted and a hamstring injury sidelined him for 10 weeks. Insomnia set in, and he began withdrawing and spending more time in the tiny flat where he lived alone.

By 2016, the same year his grandfather was inducted into the AFL Hall of Fame, Marsh had been diagnosed with clinical depression and was taking sleeping pills and an antidepressant. He recalls feeling as if he were carrying an extra 10kg on the ground, so that even his best playing wasn’t the peak he sought. “AFL reviews are pretty serious,” he acknowledges. “You get scared that you’re not playing well for the team. I don’t wanna let people down, I don’t wanna be dropped — I don’t wanna walk in on Monday and have eight clips of me doing the wrong thing, and everyone saying, ‘This is crap, Marshy’ while I’m feeling not great already. There’s obviously fun moments in games — I can’t say I went out there every game and hated it. It was just the overall feeling of playing every week didn’t feel like it used to… I’ve got a lot of personal pride in myself and how I play football. To lower those colours — it gets scary, for sure.”

The dressing room collapse, when it came, had nothing to do with the one-point loss to Hawthorn; it was relief that the season was over, fuelled by a loss of the joy of playing. Marsh has said he decided to return to WA for his personal safety, alluding to thoughts of self-harm. Once home he underwent psychological counselling, enrolled in a teaching course and began playing again for East Fremantle. By the time St Kilda lured him back to the AFL earlier this year he had weaned himself off medications, and he says the counselling has enabled him to enjoy football without making it the defining raison d’etre of his life.

“One thing a lot of the players do is reminisce about the golden days when they played football at school,” notes Adam Deacon. “What originally brings people to the game is the pure joy of discovering as kids how to manipulate this crazy ball through air. But there’s a rapid transition from that world to the AFL world.”

The coach’s box at an AFL game today often accommodates a dozen or more people seated in rows, armed with laptops. Specialist coaches for small players, forwards and defenders are joined by “mindset coaches”, “opposition analysts” and “performance analysts”, supported in turn by medical officers, physiotherapists, dietitians, rehabilitation specialists and trainers.

St Kilda’s manager of player welfare and development, Tony Brown, acknowledges that many of these roles — including his own — did not exist a decade ago. Brown played 108 games for the St Kilda seniors between 1995 and 2001 and has no memory of being subjected to such intense scrutiny.

“Every training session today is filmed,” he notes. “Every time they walk through the door they get a GPS tracking unit put in their back so everyone knows how fast they’re running and their high-intensity speed. Bloods are done, urine is taken to see if they’re hydrated. So absolutely they’re more scrutinised these days than when I was playing.” As Brown notes, players also have far more support available in managing their careers. But one thing the clubs can’t control is the harsher attention they can experience outside the cocoon of the team rooms.

“You played football and made millions you fraudulent depressant… Go to india south east asia central america those people on the streets have the right to be depressed. U are a coward and a disgraceful human milking the poor me card and the mental health card.”

— Message to Tom Boyd on Instagram, six weeks after his retirement

Geelong’s Mitch Clark is consoled by coach Chris Scott after a 2015 AFL match against Collingwood. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Media

Geelong’s Mitch Clark is consoled by coach Chris Scott after a 2015 AFL match against Collingwood. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Media

It has become a truism to say that Aussie rulesisa secular religion to its followers. Footy isn’t life-or-death in Melbourne, the joke goes, it’s far more important. Dozens of books have analysed the peculiar tribal intensity of AFL supporters, which cuts across race, class and gender. At games that fervour finds its expression in the frenzied, often hilarious, sometimes appalling improvised commentary that supporters scream from the stands. Earlier this year a Carlton supporter known only as “Frankie” was ejected from Marvel Stadium after leaning down at an umpire and shouting, “You bald-headed flog!!” The incident sparked weeks of debate about whether “bald-headed flog” was a phrase outside the bounds of traditional crowd etiquette. Frankie himself insisted he had chosen his words carefully so as not to offend women and children, and former Geelong champion Cameron Ling came to his defence. “There are certain ways you can and can’t abuse,” opined Ling. “It’s all part of the game”.

With the advent of Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, however, the brutal judgment of some footy fans has become both more weaponised and more visible, as Geelong player Mitch Clark discovered in 2015. Clark had joined Melbourne Football Club in 2012 as a gun forward earning a reported $750,000 a year, but in April 2014 he announced his retirement due to depression, an issue that had been compounded by his guilt at being paid so handsomely while unable to play due to injury. Like Nathan Thompson and Wayne Schwass before him, Clark had suffered an emotional collapse one day during training. After trying to revive his career at Geelong in 2015, he again broke down in tears after a game and left the ground clutching his head, a moment of anguish captured by photographer Michael Willson. Hundreds of AFL fans expressed sympathy and support for Clark; others never forgave his perceived betrayal of Melbourne. Booing erupted at some games whenever he touched the ball, and on Instagram he was sent a photo of himself with a noose around his neck. Today he lives in Western Australia and still posts Instagram updates on his battles with depression.

Dayne Beams (centre). Picture: AAP Image/Daniel Pockett

Dayne Beams (centre). Picture: AAP Image/Daniel Pockett

Brisbane Lions player Dayne Beams suffered even worse hazing after leaving that team last year to return to his old club, Collingwood. In early 2018 Beams had stepped down as captain of the Lions and stopped playing due to severe depression following the death of his father. At the time he had pledged his loyalty to Brisbane, and his decision to return to Melbourne provoked so much abuse that he began direct-messaging the people trolling him in an attempt to reason with them. “I’ve made it a thing for myself to call the nasty ones out,” he explained earlier this year. In late June, one of the trolls Beams was jousting with provoked him over rumours about his gambling and then delivered the cruellest gibe imaginable: “At least my dads [sic] still alive”. Beams was so gutted he posted the exchange on his public Instagram feed, discovering in the process that the troll was a 13-year-old aspiring Aussie rules player. The youth subsequently apologised to Beams in writing and a phone call, but a week later Beams posted an anguished message on Instagram: “I am a broken man at the moment and this is very very real for myself and the people that I love.” He is currently on an indefinite mental health break.

“There seems to be this pull among young players to seek validation on social media,” says Wayne Schwass, who now runs a mental health advocacy organisation called Puka Up. “What we do in elite sport is train the athlete to be a great athlete. But do we equip them with the emotional tools to cope with the criticism and negativity that comes from social media? I don’t think we do enough.”

In online chat forums such as bigfooty.com.au the defamatory innuendo that circulates about players reflects a cynical view among many punters that the phrase “mental health issues” is often a euphemism for drug, alcohol or gambling problems. The AFL’s tight control over media may be fuelling those suspicions. Many players have spoken out about depression in recent years, but usually from within the confines of the team website, the official broadcasters or a brief press conference. Buddy Franklin has never revealed what his issues were, despite holding a press conference and conducting an interview with former Richmond player Matthew Richardson on the Seven Network two years ago.

Seven, Foxtel and Telstra paid $2.5 billion for the broadcast rights to the AFL, and Foxtel alone now boasts eight footy commentary shows on its 24-hour dedicated AFL channel. The saturation coverage continues on radio, in print, on television and online as a legion of football writers and players-turned-commentators dissect the game and its participants. Mick Malthouse, one of the most successful coaches in AFL history, swears that when he started coaching in 1984 there were only 34 accredited AFL journalists. “Now there’s 900,” says Malthouse, “and they’re all looking for a front-page story or a scoop that gets them on Fox Footy. They tend to forget the impact these stories can have on people. The coach they’re criticising who’s just been sacked might have a family back home who are bawling their eyes out.”

Wayne Schwass. Picture: Jake Nowakowski

Wayne Schwass. Picture: Jake Nowakowski

Wayne Schwass says he was appalled by the media’s pursuit of Tom Boyd in 2016 and 2017. At its height, commentator Mark Robinson asked rhetorically: “What’s he on — $1.4 or $1.7 million this year? … This is the biggest bust this year in AFL history.” On Fox Footy, Cameron Mooney joined the clamour for Boyd to take a pay cut, saying: “I don’t think you pay $1 million on potential.” Boyd later revealed he’d been suffering panic attacks so severe that he nearly ran off the road while driving, and that his insomnia left him virtually sleepless for more than a month. “Tom Boyd didn’t negotiate his multi-million contract with the Western Bulldogs,” Schwass says. “That was negotiated on his behalf, and it frustrates and infuriates me that people in these positions in the media make such simplistic connections.”

Like Malthouse, Schwass applauds the AFL’s decision to create a mental health team, and he is heartened that so many players are willing to speak about their issues, both to their coaches and to the public. But he remains frustrated that some clubs still only employ mental health specialists part-time, and that the AFL has been so tardy in responding to an issue that he has been lobbying the sports administrators about since 2006.

“We’ve got a growing number of players who are under significant stress, which comes not only from mental health issues but might be related to alcohol, gambling, drugs or family issues. We’ve had an arms race in terms of investing in strength and conditioning coaches, development coaches, physiotherapists and other staff focused on physical health, and yet in 2019 we’ve got clubs that still only have a part-time psychologist. What happened with Majak Daw, as upsetting as it was, was probably the wake-up call that was needed. My greatest fear is that we will lose someone in our industry to suicide. What we need to do is get ahead of the curve and develop programs that give mental health the same priority as physical health.”

Lifeline 13 11 14, Beyond Blue 1300 224 636

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A sad read.

Hope once they are out of living in that AFL goldfish bowl, their mental and physical health improves.

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Good on you mate. Hearing the horrific news today it reminds you how important it is.

Same goes here, absolutely here if anyone needs to reach out to a fellow bomber.

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This is a good thread. Thank you, good people…

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People need to understand (often through no fault of their own) that there are different levels of depression. Sometimes it can be shrugged off after a day or two, often it can linger in the back of your mind, always there, pestering away at you, bringing you down ever so slightly when you are having a good day.

One thing I never say to anyone is “get over it”. Everyone reacts differently to different situations.

As stupid as this sounds, I actually find football as be my gauge to how I’m feeling. If I can go to a game and from the time I jump into the car or train to the time I get back home and not think about anything else apart from thay game and the rest of our season, then I know that football is working for me. When I start to think about stuff while at the foot, that’s when I know I have a bigger issue than I realise.

The RUOK is a fantastic initiative. Alot of people say “it’s important to talk” but not many want to talk. I know I often keep stuff inside (wouldn’t guess it based on my posts) because I don’t want to bring an extra burden on my wife. But a simple RUOK from a co-worker or friend does make a difference, even if the standard response is “yeah, I’m fine, I’ll sort it out”. Key is to stay engaged, maybe help take their mind off things in any way, even if just for 1 shift.

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It is always there in my mind, every day. Some days I can get through almost a whole day without the thoughts creeping in, but mostly it comes and goes throughout each day.

If I am “good” then it has no real impact, if however, I am “not good” then it can weigh heavily and I have to work hard to reduce it’s impact.

The black dog is always ready to growl and snarl in my mind, and, if I am not being proactive, it will sometimes bite.

BTW today is “not a good day”

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Yep, same. And sometimes (and I don’t know why this is) I’ll be all ■■■■■■ and have no idea why. Nothing was said, nothing happened, just my mood just dropped and from there all the tiny things that are affecting me pile up.

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It can be as simple as not enough sleep, or broken sleep. Not exhaustion, not no sleep, just slightly not enough. Could even be the beginning of a mild cold, slightly off-centre…then bang, depressiveness kicks into overdrive.

As an aside, you can usually tell on here when i am really bad…it is when I argue the most and don’t let go, but keep chasing the tail…so to speak. I tell myself to stop, walk away but I can’t seem to. Usually what stops it is someone else joining in and saying to stop. Somehow that gets through to me more than myself yelling at myself.

This is going to sound strange but I will say it anyway. I hate how I can be on here. I am not at all like that IRL. I always see the best in people and always work to be positive and encouraging of everyone, even if they are the most hated person around me. I care about others and care how they feel. Yet on here I can be an ■■■■. I assume it is the anonymity that online gives…more I think it is just the demons in me being let out, given a chance to express themselves without a lot of recourse. I like most people in here, even the ones I fight with the most and think most of them are good people, just frustrated like me. I really would like to stop that stuff and get back to being a more positive person, for others and for myself.

The ■■■■■■■ of the black dog seems to stop me though.

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@rossoneri
While I think the RUOK and other initiatives are great, I’ve spoken to mental health workers who think they’re insufficient for more serious cases where the person is contemplating suicide.
As you said, the question “are you ok?” is pretty easily blown off and unless the issue is then pressed further you’re not going to know whether the answer is sincere or not.
I did a mental health workshop not too long ago that educated on identifying and helping those at immediate risk of suicide which raised an interesting point:
If you ask someone if they’re considering hurting themselves or thinking about “doing something silly” and that person is considering suicide, odds are you’ll get an answer of “no” as they don’t believe their own death is either harmful nor silly/stupid.

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The other thing is most people don’t have the tools to deal with a person in that situation. That’s why people will mostly say “no, I’m fine”. It feels like you’re exposing a weakness that will actually drive others away - and sometimes does.

Also in your own mind, the thought that you are just being silly and melodramatic screams at you. That along with the thought that nobody would really want to know, why should they, you are usless and not needed anyway.

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Yeah there’s plenty of reasons those with depression don’t reach out.
Guilt, shame, not wanting to burden others, not wanting to be treated differently etc.
As a society I think we’re pretty junk at recognising depression and anxiety symptoms in people, or at the very least drawing a link between the behaviours and the conditions

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Excellent point. I was more talking about simply asking the question, but also following up on it too.

Are you ok?
Yes
Ok

walk off

That alone may actually do as much damage as not asking at all as the person might just think that they are only asking because they feel they have to.

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If I died today, would anyone know and anyone care?

In your head that answer is always no.

Sure those closest to you would be sad, but soon enough they would forget you and move on.

So really, does it matter if you stay alive or die? Alive is pain, death is no pain.

RUOK? can be good, but when you are like that, it means nothing.

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Do you guys remember the film with Mel Gibson What Women Want?

There is a subplot in there of a girl who feels everyone ignores her, despite her knowledge and abilities. It is only after Mel can hear women voices that he hears her desire to kill herself that he suddenly notices her. He stops her killing herself.

Sometimes I wish that could really happen.

Following on from your post the thing that’s important to recognise (and I suspect for those of us in this thread it’s preaching to the converted) is that when it gets to that point (genuine suicide contemplation), as a support person you’re now more important as a physical barrier between that person and suicide than you are a moral/psychological barrier.

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Sounds like you’re having a pretty rough time of late. I have been too - so if you want to talk give me a PM mate.

I have been pretty absent from BB lately. Ironically, it’s because I find that too much negativity and aggression between posters makes me feel worse, and there’s a lot of it in here. This thread is obviously an exception.

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You look after yourself Ice. I know that we have had footy disagreements but I love reading your thoughts even if I don’t always agree.

I live inner city Melbs and if you or anyone on Blitz ever wants to PM or catch up for a coffee or beer and want a chat don’t hesitate. I’m not on any social media except for Blitz and this is an awesome thread.

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