US Politics Thread - Post Mueller Edition

Sooo, … Trump is an Imbecile, a Russian stooge and a Criminal, … this much we know.

Will he get away with it?

The next 10,000 posts or so should tell that story.

CHAPTER 2 - The Reckoning.

The fat idiot sat behind it’s Desk, . "This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency* . I’m f^cked.” he said.

The President became angry and lambasted the Attorney General for his decision …

Democrats Grapple With Impeachment of Trump

6-7 minutes

As they digest the 448-page Mueller report, Capitol Hill Democrats are grappling with a Donald Trump-era conundrum: In a post-fact political climate, is impeachment of the president the way to go?

The Mueller report details numerous incidents of the president instructing aides to lie and to deny true stories in the media. Both White House press secretary Sarah Sanders and former press secretary Sean Spicer told untruths to the press, the Mueller report found. Several former Trump associates have been convicted or pleaded guilty to lying to authorities.

But for a frustrated Democratic caucus, one comment from a president they see as a serial liar may be fundamentally true – that Trump could walk onto Fifth Avenue in New York City and shoot someone, and his base would still be with him. In another era, with another president, such damning details might provoke a massive public backlash. But Mueller’s report was greeted by Trump supporters – and the president – with claims of vindication and cries of victimization by investigators.

And that puts congressional lawmakers in a difficult position: Do they impeach, fulfilling what some in the party say is their constitutional and moral responsibility? Or would that merely entrench Trump’s loyal base?

“When the president engages in this type of activity, it’s time for impeachment,” Sen. Elizabeth Warren, Democrat of Massachusetts, said on the campaign trail, echoing the views of several of the 20-member Democratic presidential primary field.

It’s not that her fellow Democrats disagree with the gravity of the evidence Mueller revealed. It’s that they aren’t sure whether it’s best to go ahead with a proceeding that is unlikely to result in a conviction in the Senate. Democrats are set to hold a conference call Monday to discuss how to proceed now.

Republicans in the GOP-run chamber have been largely defensive of the president. While a few have expressed their distaste – Sen. Mitt Romney, Republican of Utah, said in a statement he was “sickened at the extent and pervasiveness of dishonesty and misdirection by individuals in the highest office of the land, including the President” – most have either defended Trump or said it was time to put the matter aside and move on.

The Mueller report does not appear to have moved the needle much. A Reuters/Ipsos poll released Friday indeed showed Trump’s approval rating at 37 percent, with 56 percent disapproving. That’s not a good number – and it’s a drop of 6 points since Attorney General William Barr a month ago issued a four-page summary of the Mueller report saying Trump had not been found guilty of a crime.

But it’s still not the lowest rating Trump has hit in his presidency. That mark is 35 percent, the last time in 2017, according to Gallup. And it does not seem to be connected to details about possible wrongdoing.

Former President Richard Nixon, for example, enjoyed an approval rating of 67 percent in early 1973. But as the Watergate saga unfolded, Nixon’s numbers dropped steadily, bottoming out at 24 percent approval by the time he left office.

Cartoons on the Mueller Report

Romney’s GOP Senate colleague, Sen. Mike Lee of Utah, put it bluntly on CBS’s “Face the Nation” on Sunday. “There’s nothing in this report that changes my view of this president. I don’t think most Americans, I don’t think most senators, most members of Congress … will have their view of the president of the United States changed by this report. There’s just nothing in there that should do that,” Lee said.

Democratic leaders have been reluctant to talk impeachment, concerned it would merely energize Trump’s defenders and increase turnout among the GOP base, losing them not only the presidency in 2020 but also control of the House. A focus on health care and the economy, Democratic strategists say, is what helped the party pick up 40 seats in the House in 2018, along with the majority status that makes their current investigations of Trump possible.

Democrats got some encouraging news Monday morning with the release of a new Harvard Institute of Politics poll of Americans 18-29. The poll shows that 70 percent of those young Americans disapprove of Trump, with 29 percent approving.

But that number is not as significant as the one that goes to turnout. While at this stage in 2015, 36 percent of 18-29-year-olds surveyed by the IOP said they were likely to vote in the presidential race, 43 percent say so now.

The trend appears to be “a continuation of the most significant youth wave we’ve seen in years,” John Della Volpe, director of the poll, said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” on Monday.

Rep. Elijah Cummings, Democrat of Maryland and chairman of the House Oversight and Reform Committee, said he can “foresee” impeachment but has not outright called for proceedings to start.

“We can’t just allow this to go on and on,” Cummings told “Face the Nation” on Sunday. “If we do nothing here, what is going to happen is that the president is going to be emboldened. He’s going to say, ‘Well, I got away with that.’”

And then, Cummings added, “his aiders and abettors, the Republicans in Congress (will think) he is pretty strong and they’ll continue to go along with him. We cannot afford that. Our democracy cannot afford that.”

And, meanwhile, Congress is going to continue its inquiries and oversight, several House committee chairmen underscore.

“While Mueller did not charge the president with criminal conspiracy, he did find evidence of collusion. He found ample evidence of obstruction, but left it to Congress to pursue,” House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff tweeted Monday morning. “And we will.”

Congressional Democrats are not going to let the Mueller report lie. But they might just make Trump twist in the wind.

Hello darkness my old friend…

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I think impeachment would be a bad political move.


The trick for the Dems over the next 18 months is to motivate their base while most aggravating the Republican voters. Impeachment is likely to increase Republican turnout in 2020.

Ah, I assume you mean not aggravating the Republican voters? I agree, you want to make it so that Republican voters can’t be stuffed going to the polls, and Dems want to go out in force. That means you have the biggest impact on down ticket voting.

Absolutely correct and it staggers me that so many Dems cannot see this

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Most do. It’s just the Young’ns who are really calling for it, … whilst the Pres Candidates are just saying they do to rally the harder Left of the Dem base to them, whilst knowing it won’t happen, and they know it shouldn’t. All upside & no downside for them.

It’s not just now. They’ve wasted a huge amount of political capital on it in the last two years. That time could have been better spent getting traction on the idea that “forget about Russia, this guy’s policies are like, really sh/t”.

They’ve done a bit of that but not enough. And that’s what’s going to be important this time next year

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The best piece of News in that article was the numbers of young people who intend to vote next time around, … it’s virtually doubled.

An amount that would almost certainly have kept this bloated Fucktard out of Office in the first place, given they are 75% or so for the Dems.

Impeachment will not succeed, and will only rally & rile Dumps base, the wiser heads know this and will definitely choose the path of “Letting him Twist in the Wind” as the Author so aptly put it.

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It’ll be interesting to see whether the Republicans hold a Primary for 2020, whilst it’ll be an exercise in futility for any would-be challengers, I can see the Trump team wanting to combat the media coverage, or redirect it from the Dem Primary will no doubt attract by having their very own circus.

Having a year long rolling advertisement of Democratic policies and anti-Trumpublican rhetoric being highly covered by all segments of the media would be invaluable for the Dems and potentially devastating for the Rs if they don’t have their own running at the same time.

And let’s face it, Trump is at his best when in campaign mode, particularly against out-of-touch establishment Republicans (or Democrats).

Seeing the Democrats flounder around the Green New Deal, Medicare for All, and now Impeachment v No Impeachment is not filling me with any confidence for 2020. They will have to win this inspite of themselves.


Don McGahn testifying to the HJC could be an actual game changer.

Guy was going to quit rather than do Dumps bidding, … took notes, spent one of the longest periods speaking to Mueller, and well known for his honesty.

It will be kind of like your “Claytons” Impeachment,… the Impeachment you have when, …

(I expect there’s many that won’t get that reference,… )

The DC democrats don’t realise that Bernie is trying to save them from themselves.

They don’t have any leadership who is politically relevant in 2019 and have sold the party’s heart, soul and mind to the DCCC and all the other consultants who have no idea what actual Americans want. The sooner the real progressives gain power within the Democratic party and start moving it in the right (left) direction the sooner the Dems will stand a fighting chance against the Republicans.

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He might be a fool in behaviour - but he’s not a fool. He knows how to play the game. And the way the Democrats and the rest of the world have been trying to play Trump misses that point.

I don’t think having the report is a bad thing, especially given Dems had no control over it as it was Trump’s assistant AG that made it. I think there is value in hammering that Trump is a crook for the next two years, as it will turn off Repubs that are lukewarm on Trump (that gap between the 34% popularity and the 49% that got him elected last time).

Just don’t make it a focus of the election, and take off the table any discussion around impeachment. So take away the reasons for making it a driver of Republican turnout.

A little laughable given that Bernie is an economic progressive, but doesn’t appear to care one whit for minorities beyond the bare minimum to get elected as a Dem. He focuses on solutions for the poor, but not for minorities. I wouldn’t call him a progressive, he’s a socialist*.

'* To be clear, I don’t mean that in a derogatory way, beyond the fact I want someone as Dem leadership who is both economically and socially progressive as a leader. He’s only one of those two.

They need (unfortunately) to pick someone centrist this time. I wish they would pick some left wing firebrand but they just can’t risk a second term Trump. They need someone reasonable sounding enough to take back those rustbelt states.

For instance - I love Mayor Pete and think he is absolutely amazing, but if they put an openly gay, 40 something year old mayor of a small town up against Trump (who is a ruthless campaigner with no shame) he will get absolutely annilihated.

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Yep. Unfortunate autocorrect.

One legitimate strategy, especially for mid terms, is to put zero media attention into an area. Mobilise your voters by stealth. The opposition don’t turn out in numbers, so your quiet campaigning increases your turnout enough to overcome the diminished opposition. This has worked to cause upset elections in safe seats.

For Presidential election years, this doesn’t work well because the presidential candidate drives the turnout. Everyone else just rides their coattails.