Let’s be honest, it’s impossible to find room in this thread anymore to discuss the progress of list management. For a long time it’s been simply a combative outlet inhabited by a homogenous group of aggrieved sports fans vying for affirmation by re-stating the in-group’s core position in even stronger terms whilst denouncing those that dispute it.
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It’s an interesting take but I don’t find this very convincing to be honest.
I think it’s pretty clear that there is more to it than that. For example, players like Myers were by all accounts very motivated and self-driven yet never reached those heights, and Merrett is probably the most skilful player we’ve had on the list in the last 20 years. In Merrett’s case, I don’t think you can develop that level of talent into anyone and I don’t think that people can reach that level through internal drive alone, although it probably helps. In reality, Merrett is extremely talented and skilful and he was likely born with traits that enabled that.
I think we need to apply occam’s razor and look for the simplest answer, which is that Merrett and Watson are just more talented than our other players. Watson is after all the son of a champion, so likely inherited a certain level of ability that other listed players didnt.
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It’s gonna be hard to rid ourselves of Dodoro once we win a final or two and the premiership next year
I’m trying to avoid making any single player specific definitive examples, because I’m trying to pitch a zoomed out long term trend type idea.
Like, we’ve drafted 10ish players per year for 20 years. That’s a lot of young guys who have come through the system. That’s a lot of opportunities for sliding doors moments, 200ish players in total.
I think it’s fair to say that poor medical, development and culture each can lower a ceiling or derail a career. Not all the time, but it’s common enough that we wouldn’t bat an eyelid at it when it happens at other clubs. For example, I look back on players who came through the saga years and just wonder what their careers could have been if not for the mess the club was in.
I can’t put numbers on it, there’s no Time Machine we can use, but we are seeing right now how much better our list looks with the off field stuff largely under control. I’m not saying that our list management in the past has been perfect, but if talented players were getting chewed up and spat out for no return, it makes the recruiting job far far more difficult.
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You didn’t mention Durham. He’s an example of a late pick that was looking ok’ish, but has elevated under Scott. He was a late pick like Clarke, Mutch, NOB, etc. and in a sense we are now building our midfield around him. Or he’s an integral part anyway. The fact he can go from MSD to integral under Scott, does imply the fact that some of those other guys were late picks doesn’t automatically mean they couldn’t have achieved it with a better development system.
Individual players are fools evidence. A good development system will still have failures. A bad one will still have successes. Maybe Merrett and Watson would have been better at other clubs. Certainly there’s an argument that Hurley at a team who played him in defence from day 1, where his soft-tissue injuries were treated better, and he wasn’t suspended for 2016 might have had more than 2 AAs.
You mention Myers above; certainly his long issues with injuries are well publicised and likely had a detrimental impact on development. Lack of continuity, opportunity, plus the long-term impacts on his body. Being self motivated isn’t particularly useful if you can’t get onto the track. Also, Blitzers bemoaned for years he would rack up possession in the middle in the VFL, and then get played off half-back at AFL level where he struggled. Was his eventual output significantly impacted by development? We’ll never know.
But generally, I agree that development ability is incredibly hard to quantify. And it is mixed up with team quality, leaders, injury/fitness treatment as well as the raw quality of the player recruited. There are a number of factors that indicate our recruitment was fine and development lacking, but I know the anti-EFC recruitment are generally disagree with them. So, I won’t bring them up.
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‘He’s’ entitled to his view, whether you agree or not. No need to be feisty, he might actually be onto something 
Essendon is showing some promise, let’s just enjoy it and debate it without going the man.
Saw AD today. Seemed to be in a cheery mood. 
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Rosa was on the Gettable podcast. Has just taken over contract negotiations after AD did the last batch. Lead for mid season draft.
Still being heavily mentored by Adrian.
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If Rosa does the opposite of everything Dodoro teaches him we are in good hands
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Jack Whitlock is the perfect Dodoro pick this years ND.
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There is this thread.
Most of the discussion is less combative and more about what we think we need and towards the end of the year who should be delisted.
Only times that it goes into a Dodoro hemisphere is at the extreme emotional times (i.e. loss to GWS last year, when Rotten was sacked, etc).
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And some of us trying and point those posts back to this thread.
You said “Mcgrath as a number 1 selection should be the type of player we try to build a team/midfield around”. Pointing out plenty of #1 picks never reach that level, and only a handful of players (none taken top 10) would reach that level in the entire 2016 draft in my view shows this is a very flawed statement. How else was that statement to be interpreted?
And yes, I avoided this thread for a good 18-24 months. Because it becomes quickly exhausting and time-consuming arguing my views. Most of the arguments are repeats of what has come before.
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It’s good to see you back. It’s good to see there’s a few countering opinions to the general narrative on Essendon’s list management performance.
We might be cultists, but who cares. The signs of a stable club for the first time in 17 years, results on field taking shape following sn external review and better resourcing of footy dept might mean we will be vindicated in our beliefs in the end.
We aren’t there yet. I still think the list has lots of necessary growth ahead but it’s very promising without a doubt.
Once Reid and Ridley slot in, they find / develop another small forward and see another preseason or two into Cox, Jones, Perkins, Durham, Martin et all, the futures looking promising.
Fingers crossed they fix fitness and conditioning and get them training, playing and developing.
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Wrong
Ants is like the AFL umpires boss after a weekend of Umpiring howlers………who comes in and says that ‘all decisions are technically correct’, even when blind Freddy knows they’re wrong.
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Its pretty simple. Every single bit of credit you give dodo for us being (hopefully) 2nd after 10 rounds of 1 single season is the exact same level of responsibility you should give him for the previous 22 years of NOT being in as good a position at this stage of a season. Does anyone actually believe we suddenly developed every player on the list only this year? Did we find that missing culture only in the last few weeks? If we ultimately slide late in the year & miss or lose an elimination final again does that mean we actually didn’t develop the players? At least chose a consistent position.
IF this list goes on to maintain a high ladder position & make then win finals it will absolutely only be possible because the list management has been good enough to give us the players to make that happen. You either, like me, believe list management is critical to success or you are a person who shifts all blame to development, culture & coaching. Those same people should attribute no credit to dodo for our current ladder position or any future success. He simply can’t be praised for success if he’s not equally responsible for failures.
Again my position is crystal clear. For EFC to have success at any point in the future the list management decisions have to culminate in a strong list being assembled. I don’t believe we have had that list at any point of the last 20 odd years & every shred of evidence available only supports that. Our list management has been poor end of story. There is nothing at all to remotely support the fantasy that we’ve had great quality lists each & every year but every single development coach we’ve had have been completely hopeless. There’s zero logic to the idea that we lost our club’s culture & it just happened to coincide with dodo being appointed. Development & culture are the sharp end of the stick, recruiting is the stick.
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Not at all.
That’s because the List team imo couldn’t effectively build lists during years of chaos, crisis, instability, lack of football department resources and a dysfunctional fitness regime that all impacted the conditioning, development and focus of the players the last 15+ years. I don’t know why I keep repeating myself.
You just don’t agree which is all good.
But in the end I believe we will see for the first time in years a successful list build culminating in on field success thanks in large part to a newfound and refocused club, adequately resourcing key areas of its footy dept, with a much more targeted and focussed development coaching group.
This, with signs of breaking the cycle of injury and poor conditioning, a dedicated group ramping up standards in the off season (Arizona) the results are starting to materialise. Young players are developing because they aren’t injured. Funny that!
I think next year and beyond shape as good years if, and only if, these parameters of success are maintained and built further.
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Our current list looks better because we snagged two absolute fliers from the Preseason and Midseason draft, in Martin and Durham.
Having these two come this good is so far outside the statistical norm it’s nuts. Some will say good drafting, but outliers like this are luck.
Without them our list would have some serious holes and the high draft picks lack of impact/progress especially around disposal would be glaring.
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