Serial season 2 is pretty boring really. I’ll listen all the way through, because I’m brand loyal, but if this was season 1, it would never have become popular.
Mildly interesting story told reasonably well. But meh.
Not too sure that Serial Series 2 re Bowe Bergdahl (soldier who walked off base and was captured by the Taliban) is that gripping.It’s not, it’s keeping me going (just) but in an ‘hmm that’s interesting’ kinda way not a ‘what the hell???’ way that series 1 was gripping.
If you got into serial season 1 there’s also ‘Undisclosed’ and ‘Serial Dynasty’. Bunch of lawyers and/or investigators drilling down a lot further into detail. Jay’s testimony… boy oh boy. knock knock
I like the way they keep saying “well, who could have done it if it wasn’t Syed”. How about Jay? Bugger got jailed pretty much on Jay’s evidence.
Not too sure that Serial Series 2 re Bowe Bergdahl (soldier who walked off base and was captured by the Taliban) is that gripping.It’s not, it’s keeping me going (just) but in an ‘hmm that’s interesting’ kinda way not a ‘what the hell???’ way that series 1 was gripping.
If you got into serial season 1 there’s also ‘Undisclosed’ and ‘Serial Dynasty’. Bunch of lawyers and/or investigators drilling down a lot further into detail. Jay’s testimony… boy oh boy. knock knock
I like the way they keep saying “well, who could have done it if it wasn’t Syed”. How about Jay? Bugger got jailed pretty much on Jay’s evidence.
Jay’s evidence sounds dodgy, coached and rehearsed.
But I still think Anand did it. And it can only be one of those two.
How so? Literally only Jay's word ties anyone to anything, and it's impossible to take any of his conflictig statements (he gave 2 or 3 to police, all varying wildly, and testified two or three different times, again, all varying a lot).Not too sure that Serial Series 2 re Bowe Bergdahl (soldier who walked off base and was captured by the Taliban) is that gripping.It’s not, it’s keeping me going (just) but in an ‘hmm that’s interesting’ kinda way not a ‘what the hell???’ way that series 1 was gripping.
If you got into serial season 1 there’s also ‘Undisclosed’ and ‘Serial Dynasty’. Bunch of lawyers and/or investigators drilling down a lot further into detail. Jay’s testimony… boy oh boy. knock knock
I like the way they keep saying “well, who could have done it if it wasn’t Syed”. How about Jay? Bugger got jailed pretty much on Jay’s evidence.
Jay’s evidence sounds dodgy, coached and rehearsed.
But I still think Anand did it. And it can only be one of those two.
Certainly the prosecution’s story bears little, if any, resemblance to the truth.
The police never even talked to classmates either after she went missing or after the body showed up. They got Jay to rumble (most likely had something on him, quite possible he & Adnan were in… business… together). The alibi of the current boyfriend, Don, is bodgy (he wasn’t at his normal work where his mum was manager, he was supposedly at another shop where his step-mum was manager - and she falsified a time-sheet for him), and he couldn’t account for the time between work & 1AM at all. Not that the cops ever spoke to him, cos why on earth would you ever speak to the current boyfriend of a missing person. No sirree.
It’s almost certain her car wasn’t where Jay “told” the police to "find’ it for very long, and someone had most likely cleaned it in between. Her body lay face-down for 6-8 hours after she died, certainly not stuck in a small car boot for ~3 hours before being buried on it’s side. Never looked for, or found, her purse (why on earth would an ex-, or for that matter friend, steal her purse??). Never tested the swabs etc for evidence of rape. The cops knowingly lied & said Adnan was 18, hence up for a capital trial, which counted heavily against him at his bail hearing despite an extraordinarily solid community turnout on his behalf.
The phone ‘pings’ are almost complete rubbish, that sort of evidence shoulnd’t have been used as evidence then, has now been challenged and no longer gets used as evidence. Police and/or prosecutors warned witnesses off and most likely “lost” some other exculpatory statements, both of which are violations and cause for re-trial. Half the witnesses were talking about the wrong day (there was no wrestling match that Hae was supposedly going to, different week)
FWIW they only pulled one set of phone records, Adnan’s. None of her friends, not Don’s. And on and on it goes. A hell of a lot of stuff got ignored or never followed up and 15 years on, it’s gone. They had him and only him in the gun, from a long, long way out. It’s possible it was Adnan, but if it was, it’s only by pure co-incidence they got the right guy. Whole investigation & case was a frame-up.
Jay may have known something about it, his first statement to one of his friends he told was “her body was face down, in a truck” - which fits the lividity stuff from the post mortem photos. He’s basically perjured himself, recently said the burial happened after 12, but under all that he still may know something (I just doubt it). Just can’t possibly believe he was with Adnan that night, he knew nothing about what they’d done & where they’d gone.
Still genuinely interested how you think it could only be AS or JW. FWIW the heavily vaunted “Jay knew where the car was!!!” only happened after the cops had discussed it with him (but never got him on tape saying it’s at X location)… a few more hours of talking… and a false start where he took them to the wrong spot. Again, he may have known, but if he did, he’s doing a good job of hiding the fact.
Whoa, you’ve gone right down the rabbit hole HAP!
Yes, I based the ‘Jay or Adnan’ on Jay giving the cops the car, so your extra info there does muddy the waters on that. I haven’t gone as far with it as you have.
But personally, you have to wear very rose coloured glasses to even entertain the idea that Adnan is innocent, and each podcast series is wearing rosier glasses than the previous one.
I agree the prosecution was dodgy, I agree that his lawyer was off her rocker and farked up the case, and I agree he probably shouldn’t have been found guilty based on the evidence.
But I think he is guilty, and seemingly so does every court that has heard it.
HAP’s come out of hibernation … but I’m not sure he’s fully regained consciousness or all his faculty’s just yet … some head shaking posts atm … even for him.
Whoa, you've gone right down the rabbit hole HAP!Unfortunately for all concerned, the more you read/hear, the less there is to hang your hat on. The cops' case (admittedly - as per their closing arguments) was the cell-phone pings, Jay's testimony which matched (which of course it would, the cops walked him through the pings), and Jay "knowing" where the car was... on just the second attempt. The cell phone evidence was brilliant for convincing a jury, took 2 or 3 days, drone drone drone "location X". No way known a juror can keep track of the intricacies, how accurate it is or isn't... but they remember location X, that the lawyer has made a point of. That part was just very, very well played by the prosecution (and awfully by the defence)Yes, I based the ‘Jay or Adnan’ on Jay giving the cops the car, so your extra info there does muddy the waters on that. I haven’t gone as far with it as you have.
But personally, you have to wear very rose coloured glasses to even entertain the idea that Adnan is innocent, and each podcast series is wearing rosier glasses than the previous one.
I agree the prosecution was dodgy, I agree that his lawyer was off her rocker and farked up the case, and I agree he probably shouldn’t have been found guilty based on the evidence.
But I think he is guilty, and seemingly so does every court that has heard it.
Jay’s statements are almost hilariously inconsistent, at one point the cops messed up one of the cell tower locations, so Jay says (on tape, albeit not under oath) “yes we definitely drove to X location”… then the cops realise they stuffed up and just coincidentally Jay tells them… “no actually we drove to Y location”. And his testimonies in the mistrial are directly contradicted in parts by his evidence in the 2nd trial, and interviews he’s done since. And the “knock knock” factor when he “forgets” something when talking to the cops. They were coaching him through a sheet of cell towers the phone pinged. You just can’t take a word he says as true.
Background is Baltimore in those few years had 400+ murders pa. Their homicide squad was horrendously overworked & under-resourced. 2 other 17-20yo girls got abducted & killed in just that local area, in 98-2000. 1 was a year or two ahead of Hae/Adnan at Woodlawn, the other was abducted from just near where Hae was heading to pick her cousin up (killer lived across the road). All killed & dumped in Leakin park. The other 2 took years (and some luck) to get solved. This was a case they could make stick.
HAP's come out of hibernation .. but I'm not sure he's fully regained consciousness or all his faculty's just yet .. some head shaking posts atm .. even for him.Umm, thank you?
Try to find the bit that the cops paid some “expert” to say at his bail hearing.
“All muslims have zero respect for women and there’s a lot* of teenage muslims killing their girlfriends and he can just flee the country afterwards and there’s a heap of similar crimes*”
*There was one case in the US, in like the 70s or 80s.
** He only had an American citizenship, I don’t think he’d ever been out of the country. He couldn’t go anywhere
*** There was one Pakistani kid who’d killed a dude as part of basically a gang fight
Telling ya, the cards were well & truly stacked against him.
Adnan was seemingly (allegedly, potentially, whatever way you want to word it) the last person to see her alive.
He had the motive, and the means.
He had no abibi, and no story at all. (Say what you will about Jay’s story, at least he had one)
And he had a witness who said he did it, and incriminated himself by doing so.
The thing that gets me though about Jay, is that a drug dealing black guy - in Baltimore - carried more credibility with both the police and the jury, than Adnan did.
Adnan was seemingly (allegedly, potentially, whatever way you want to word it) the last person to see her alive.You're confusing 'the police said' with the truth. Adnan's got a witness (Asia McLean, the one the prosecution discouraged from testifying - which they're not allowed to do, much less meant to) who swears he's still in the library with her at about 2:30 - after Hae drives out at about 2:15-2:20 (sworn to by the concession stand lady). He definitely was not the last to see her.He had the motive, and the means.
He had no abibi, and no story at all. (Say what you will about Jay’s story, at least he had one)
And he had a witness who said he did it, and incriminated himself by doing so.
The thing that gets me though about Jay, is that a drug dealing black guy - in Baltimore - carried more credibility with both the police and the jury, than Adnan did.
You make a good point about Jay. He admitted to accessory after the fact to a first degree murder (normally 10 years to life I believe, he was over 18), he admitted to dealing dope, he admitted to lying to the police multiple times, and (I think) it’s a crime to not report a death (certainly is here). For all that, he got a grand total of 2 years’ probation. Must have had a great lawyer, hey? Except he never engaged a lawyer until one of the cops found one for him. So just really, really lucky the cops were looking out for him. As you say, cops are notoriously kind to wayward black kids, from bodgy families, in high crime areas. Especially ones who’ve just coughed up to enough serious crimes to see them put away until middle age. Now a prosecution has (US federal law) to tell the court if they make a deal with a witness, so obviously that didn’t happen… and by the way, I’ve a bridge for sale, if you’re interested.
Real story: cops had NFI, and weren’t really interested in finding out. They had enough on Jay he would’ve admitted to the Lincoln assassination, let alone Kennedy, or putting Adnan in it. The real killer got away with it.
So wait, are you saying Jay did it, and he lied to cover his tracks? ( A story I can get around) Or are you saying the cops hand picked Jay out, because he’s credibility is so incredibly high, coached him with a story, convinced him to admit he buried a dead body, all to set up Adnan… Just because?
Oh, and even Adnan himself can’t back up Asia McLean’s library story. Nor can her ex boyfriend, or his friend. Nor can the weather bureau.
Her story is more suspect than Jay’s, and it’s no accident she wasn’t called up at the first trial.
A bridge you say? I’d be more interested in your cool-aid, it sounds delicious. 
Edit: Sorry, just saw your last paragraph.
So… The cops struck a deal with Jay to commit perjury, wrongfully convict a sort of friend / colleague of his, take the risk of admitting to murder 2… So, what, he doesn’t have to serve 2-3 years for weed dealing?
Pretty extreme scenario, and a big friggin risk by the cops too.
As I said, I can get around the idea that Jay did it, but any other scenario just makes zero sense why Jay would say and do what he did. Unless of course, he’s telling the truth.
Jay obviously thought the deal that he definitely didn’t get at all was worth saying just about anything for, no matter how implausible, or how much it conflicted with what he’d previously said. Anything he says is not worth a pinch of yours.
And Asia didn’t testify for good reason - the prosecution buried her, first time around. Still, she was credible enough for the state to re-open the case and she testified, by all reports credibly, last week.
I’m not sure whether remembering a certain day is or isn’t incriminating. Certainly not as incriminating as having, say, his mum write out a fake time sheet. And if you go through the fine detail of other witnesses, almost everyone else changed things along the way.
A couple said HML needed to get to wrestling (there was no wrestling), someone else even said they dropped food off to Jay at his work (a month before he started working there), others changed times (like the concession stand chick) or even locations.
They clearly don’t remember either. Raises the question as to what’s worse: admitting you can’t remember, falsifying documents, or making it up altogether?
Quite possible Adnan wasn’t guilty of murder but did something else he didn’t want to admit.
After all he lent his car & phone to this drug dealer mate, who he described as only an acquaintance, who drove the car all around town, making all these calls, before they met up later and had a smoke at another mate’s house. I had a mate like that once upon a time.
Edit: Sorry, just saw your last paragraph.So… The cops struck a deal with Jay to commit perjury, wrongfully convict a sort of friend / colleague of his, take the risk of admitting to murder 2… So, what, he doesn’t have to serve 2-3 years for weed dealing?
Pretty extreme scenario, and a big friggin risk by the cops too.
As I said, I can get around the idea that Jay did it, but any other scenario just makes zero sense why Jay would say and do what he did. Unless of course, he’s telling the truth.
Jay’s dad spent half his life inside, I can see how the threat of ‘just a few years’ could affect you.
Plus Jay, just like Adnan, made the often (literally) fatal mistake of not engaging a lawyer from the word go.
Based on the Serial recap, it didn’t sound like Asia was convincing at all. The prosecution methodically took her apart. It basically sounds straight up like she had the wrong day. (Something most witnesses seemed to suffer)
And yeah, how unlucky is Adnan to lend his car and phone to the very person who ended up setting him up, and then later gets stoned with him, on the very day his ex girlfriend gets murdered?
Anyway… Agree to disagree. I think he did it.
HAP's come out of hibernation .. but I'm not sure he's fully regained consciousness or all his faculty's just yet .. some head shaking posts atm .. even for him.Umm, thank you?Try to find the bit that the cops paid some “expert” to say at his bail hearing.
“All muslims have zero respect for women and there’s a lot* of teenage muslims killing their girlfriends and he can just flee the country afterwards and there’s a heap of similar crimes*”*There was one case in the US, in like the 70s or 80s.
** He only had an American citizenship, I don’t think he’d ever been out of the country. He couldn’t go anywhere
*** There was one Pakistani kid who’d killed a dude as part of basically a gang fightTelling ya, the cards were well & truly stacked against him.
I was more referring to other recent posts that I couldn’t fathom, … haven’t read any of the spoiler talk on serial, (thanks all the same for that though folks 
), … I might listen to it one day.
It comes to a certain point with Spoilers where by if you haven’t seen / heard it by now… That’s your problem.
Besides, nothing there is a spoiler, it’s just two opinionated people with differing views pretending they understand the full extent of the case… It won’t have spoiled anything.
Not much of what’s discussed is from Serial, mostly his hearings, Undisclosed and the other podcast.
It comes to a certain point with Spoilers where by if you haven't seen / heard it by now... That's your problem.Besides, nothing there is a spoiler, it’s just two opinionated people with differing views pretending they understand the full extent of the case… It won’t have spoiled anything.
You guys were hardly the first. It’s cool though, like I said I haven’t read any of it.
Or on making of a murder, or …
… & u must have missed the ;).
The thing that gets me though about Jay, is that a drug dealing black guy - in Baltimore - carried more credibility with both the police and the jury, than Adnan did.
Hmmm.
The thing that gets me about Shane Charter, is that a convicted drug dealer - carried more credibility with ASADA, WADA and CAS, than Jobe did.