Australian Politics, Mark II

Yes of course its Trump and that warmonger Bolton. They have been escalating the situation since taking office. The Trump administration, Saudi Royal Family & Netanyahu. Now there is an axis of evil. Anyone who believes a word that comes out of Trump’s mouth re. this or anything else is deluded. We had 600k dead Iraqis on the back of Dubbya’s WMD lies and here we are again.

Edit - I mean, its like as soon as he took office, Trump flipped a coin to decide which of North Korea & Iran he would attack vs play peacemaker. Farkin vile narcissist has to have a war of his own.

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Yes, but Bolton is a common denominator and the yanks funding Saudi has been happening under countless administrations. Trump, as much as he has escalated attacks in ongoing wars, has yet to start a new one, though the night is young. Bush went to Afghanistan and Iraq very quickly and Obama/Clinton also started two “civil” wars within about four years. The fact he tried to pull out of Syria but copped media backlash for it, is incredibly telling of the control the CIA and war narrative have. The bloke is no saint and at the end of the day a hypocrite, especially in regards to Assange, but I find many critcisms of him to also be hypocritical and poorly focused. Baby throwing toys out of the cot type stuff. Anyway, we’re fully digressing but I suppose we both agree we better not follow them.

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So Russia have come out and said the drone was shot in Iran territory.

Now I don’t know who to believe!

So i’d rather keep our troops and equipment at home thanks.

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.ScoMo clearly hoping to continue that great Australian tradition of our political leaders sucking American pe nis.

Because many people are anti-unions.

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Thank you for your correction Foxy. The brain slipped a gear there (again). Yes, of course it was two elections that Shorten lost as leader and not three. I was thinking of the earlier Gillard and Rudd time when he was only pulling ropes backstage.

However, my basic tenet is accurate. Rudd was a good PM, a very good one. Look at his legacy: he signed the Kyoto Protocol, delivered the apology to Indigenous Australians for the Stolen Generations, got the NBN under way (not his fault if the Tories destroyed it), started the Digital Education Revolution, dismantled WorkChoices, and got our troops out of Iraq (where they should never have been in the first place. The economic stimulus packages during the GFC were a genius move and saved us from disaster. Then there was the Australia 2020 Summit…

Where he fell down was over the Resources Super Profits Tax. He should have held his ground and gone to the country over that ! The Tory press were after him because of that, and the pink batts (even though he was not to blame) were a good excuse to blacken him. The Caucus got antsy, worrying about their jobs, Gillard renegued on a deal and the kingmaker orchestrated the vote. Rudd was gone.

Yes, your claim that “Rudd was his own worst enemy” has a certain amount of evidence to support it. He suffers fools badly, and that’s for sure, especially among his Caucus colleagues – but he certainly didn’t “forget who he worked for.” He knew well that he worked for the Labor Party — but it was the Caucus who removed him, and the Caucus is NOT the Labor Party, however much they might pretend to be. It was to cut back the Caucus’s power that he changed the rules for election of the leader — although, as he will understand now, it was ultimately a vain exercise, for the Caucus still controls the leadership results.

It’s high time that power was removed entirely from the Caucus, so that the Party would vote as a whole for the leadership on a simple democratic one- member-one-vote basis. That way we might have a chance of an Australian version of Jeremy Corbyn.

As for your disingenuous claim that you “will never understand why Shorten is not liked” - just look at his whole career ! (Ask Bob Sercombe, to start with.) Shorten may be a very nice bloke personally, and a case can be made that a person with his networking abilities is needed to organise the backroom dealings, but the kingmaker should never try and become king.

Shorten’s back-room wheeling and dealing, his ruthless ability to push his own barrow over anything that’s in his path, are not qualities that endear him to the general public.

He’s an abysmal public speaker. When people see him up on a podium, they’re not listening to what he says — which is always too damn complicated anyway — they’re waiting for the next zinger (Thankyou, Mr Micallef.). In this media-managed age, Labor needs a leader whom people like, instinctively, when they see him or her on their screens, one whom they like despite the depredations of the Murdoch media. That was never Bill.

Albo was the man chosen by the membership — why? Because they’re ordinary people, and ordinary people LIKE him instinctively. Whether he’ll manage to carry it off through the next election is anybody’s guess, but he has a certain charisma which will hold him in good stead. He’ll need it, too, given the fight he’s picked with Setka — but that’s another story.

You’re entitled to your opinion that “Julia was the real deal”, however wrong it may be. I’m getting a bit tired of the old mantra that “Rudd weakened her position so much that it was untenable,” though. The fact that Julia herself only got the job having weakened Rudd’s position so much that it was untenable, is carefully ignored by you, because it doesn’t suit your narrative.

You seem to think that you’re the only one around here who understands the way Labor politics works. Sorry, pal, I’m nobody’s boss, but I paid my dues on the Melbourne waterfront as a WWF delegate, when the unions still ran the show. So Foxy in short, GAGF yourself. :grin:

I liked Rudd more than any other PM, though he seemed like a tosspot.

But when he didn’t proceed with the DD election it felt like we were left in no mans land, and all the opportunity and appetite for progress withered and died.

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How on earth can anyone be surprised by this?

  • The GOP has a massive hard-on for war and will create any excuse they can.
  • The LNP will do whatever they can to kiss the feet of the US government

It was never if. Only when.

TDS:

https://www.dictionary.com/e/acronyms/tds/

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We entered the era of finite resource wars long ago, this is another chapter they’re trying to create. All the more reason for Australia to put the purse on renewables and burn those ■■■■■ killing our waterways for profit. As if.

Yep bg, we can agree on that, and I suspect most other things even if we disagree on ways & means.

The American war machine is always a worry under both Dems and GOP, but history shows the GOP are far more aggressive, reckless and authoritarian. Have you seen Vice?

Yep. Called climate change “the greatest moral challenge of our times”. Then bottled it over calling a DD on the back of it. He was Mr +70% approval at that stage. I think the public became convinced he was full of sh*t after that.

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In pure political terms the LGBTIQ community and their lobby are potentially vastly outnumbered in the Folau / Freedom of speech debate. At last count, 50% of Australians admitted to being Christian. Estimates vary, but 6% maybe 8% but probably not more, admit to being LGBTIQ, so even allowing for a 100% intersection of the 2 sets, 42 % of Australians admit to being Christian and are not LGBTIQ.

So, they are outnumbered in the ratio 5 to 1. However, the non LGBTIQ community are far more politically active than Christians, but there are signs the Christian community are becoming more active and they are potentially a powerful political force at least when it comes to being able to preach their beliefs.

The Folau fund under the Christian Lobby has hit around $1.5 million in 2 days.
This is astounding, and maybe there are signs that the LGBTIQ and its apologists have picked a the wrong issue and group to get into a fight over.

** I am pro SSM and LGBTIQ and their lifestyle. Its a free country. I am also an Atheist.

people have donated 1.5m? fmd we’re doomed.

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IMO Rudd is/was a charismatic narcissist. It wasn’t long before his cabinet colleagues worked him out. I am not so sure the Australian public who voted for him got to see what others who worked with him saw, that is, a total personality change in private.

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The Folau tweet focusses on all that is farked about the Christian religion. It is based on 2 books that are full of unproven assertions that seriously need to be revised so that they are based on a rational outlook on life and living together and living together on Earth with respect for all forms of life and their place on this planet. In many cases the teachings are good and very positive. Why did Folau focus on such negatives as going to “Hell”. Its a place that does not exist in any “afterlife”, but actually does for some unfortunate people who experience it in their own lives.

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As soon as you mentioned Bob Sercombe, I knew you had no farking idea.

About the only thing I agree with you about is that the Caucus works for the Labor Party and most of them have serious trouble understanding that.

You are about as wrong with your view of Shorten as you are with Rudd. I wish Albo well, but he is far too weak for me and he will surround himself with his type of person, already doing that and I fear he will split Labor apart, but like Rudd he may get popular support, win an election and then the merry go round starts again. I will not be hear to see it, as I am giving up.

Its all a matter of belief which has begun more wars on this planets than most can count.
And its when someone decides to thrust their beliefs down the throats of others and they object - there’s a problem which quickly festers and escalates.

We’re probably overdue for another war which is simply a poor man’s kill off. Unfortunately, history shows us human beings have not learned a lot about each other or about living together in peace via acceptance and tolerance. Will we ever learn? It will take a lot of self enquiry or another global calamity for people to come together and support each other for the greater good regardless of who we are, where we live and what our beliefs of choice are.

IIRC there has been 9000 individual donations, many of which are large ones, with some people doubling or tripling their original donations.
So, roughly 25 million Aussies haven’t contributed a cent.

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