It's Dell O'Clock'Olio!
Wouldn't it makes sense to promote Thurlow?
Otherwise we are flying solo with Ryder and maybe Daniher pinch hitting every now and then.
If he’s not up to it yet, why would you bother?
If he's not up to it yet, why would you bother?
Do you mean Thurlow?
If he's not up to it yet, why draft him? What's the point of putting a back up ruckman on the rookie list, if he's not capable of filling in for this very situation?
Personally, unless Steinberg is miles ahead of Hardingham as the medium forward, I wouldn't promote anybody until we need to.
I don't want Joe having to play ruck minutes but seriously, atm you only use Thurlow if Belly AND Ryder are injured.
True. But if you upgrade somebody else, and then Ryder gets injured / reported...I don't want Joe having to play ruck minutes but seriously, atm you only use Thurlow if Belly AND Ryder are injured.
It's a tricky situation, and one that was always going to be a possibility with the way we balanced the list.
there's no way they'll upgrade anyone until round 1 imo. use the practice matches to see who presses a case, then view the list balance/injury situation at season start. By then, Belly is hopefully only a month away from returning, and if you've decided that Steinbergs 12 goals in the NAB comp make him a must-have for senior footy, then you're only rolling the dice for a few weeks.
As in any? Last year he rucked a bit in every game he played. It will probably be a good way for him to get into the game. Of course you wouldn't want him going into games as first ruck.I don't want Joe having to play ruck minutes but seriously, atm you only use Thurlow if Belly AND Ryder are injured.
there's no way they'll upgrade anyone until round 1 imo. use the practice matches to see who presses a case, then view the list balance/injury situation at season start. By then, Belly is hopefully only a month away from returning, and if you've decided that Steinbergs 12 goals in the NAB comp make him a must-have for senior footy, then you're only rolling the dice for a few weeks.
Well yeah, If Steinberg rips it up in the NAB, you'd probably take the risk.
Outside of that though, I'm not sure we'll even promote anybody at round 1.
there's no way they'll upgrade anyone until round 1 imo. use the practice matches to see who presses a case, then view the list balance/injury situation at season start. By then, Belly is hopefully only a month away from returning, and if you've decided that Steinbergs 12 goals in the NAB comp make him a must-have for senior footy, then you're only rolling the dice for a few weeks.
Pretty much my thoughts & I'd say most, no sense commiting till they have to.
Think they'll have to put one up if they show a bit, wasted development chance o/wise.
News may get better 4 TBC yet too, or worse (touch wood).
If he's not up to it yet, why would you bother?
Do you mean Thurlow?
If he's not up to it yet, why draft him? What's the point of putting a back up ruckman on the rookie list, if he's not capable of filling in for this very situation?
Personally, unless Steinberg is miles ahead of Hardingham as the medium forward, I wouldn't promote anybody until we need to.
Ummmmm mebbe becoz we think he can improve to a point where he will be...
I know now in 20/20 hindsight with TBC getting a moderate/large injury that may be silly, but it's not inconceivable that the coaches/recruiters thought Paddy/TBC would be OK for 1 or 2 years whilst Thurlow develops. Especially since Joe may be able to ruck even more in 2015.
Also of course we won't be promoting anyone until we need to. They only ever promote someone the Wednesday/Thursday before playing them that weekend.
If he's not up to it yet, why would you bother?
Do you mean Thurlow?
If he's not up to it yet, why draft him? What's the point of putting a back up ruckman on the rookie list, if he's not capable of filling in for this very situation?
Personally, unless Steinberg is miles ahead of Hardingham as the medium forward, I wouldn't promote anybody until we need to.
Ummmmm mebbe becoz we think he can improve to a point where he will be...
I know now in 20/20 hindsight with TBC getting a moderate/large injury that may be silly, but it's not inconceivable that the coaches/recruiters thought Paddy/TBC would be OK for 1 or 2 years whilst Thurlow develops. Especially since Joe may be able to ruck even more in 2015.
Also of course we won't be promoting anyone until we need to. They only ever promote someone the Wednesday/Thursday before playing them that weekend.
He's 21 though, not an 18 year old project player.
I'd be surprised if they drafted him to have him develop for a few years until he's ready. And if they did, that's some silly list management. I saw his selection as a guy who could step into the team IF needed. He's not needed yet, we're only one ruckman down, but if we are two ruckman down, you'd ■■■■■■ well hope he's able to step in and at least make a decent contest.
Having to pull Daniher or Carlisle out of our forward line to ruck an entire game is not a situation I'd hope to find us in.
Umm it's not silly list management at all.
Having 2 seniors ready rucks is as many as you can really fit on an AFL list. When you have 3 who all deserve to be playing seniors, then chances are you lose at least 1 because you can't play them all (have we so quickly forgotten the problems caused by Hille, Paddy and TBC all being good enough for senior football?).
A ruck usually starts to really hit their stride between 23-25, Paddy and Bellchambers are both basically coming into what should be their prime. On top of that you have a young and highly rated Forward/Ruck in Daniher on the main list and a youngish slightly more physically developed rookie in Thurlow who will act as backup and hopefully develop so that by the time Paddy and TBC are starting to wind down in output a bit Daniher and Thurlow will be starting to fill the gap.
To be honest, as far as I am concerned that is as far from silly list management as you can get. If a serious injury happens to one of TBC or Paddy (as it sort of has), you still have 1 prime ruckman to carry the load with relief from one of the other talls in the team. For what it's worth, the majority of AFL teams run with only 1 primary ruckman on game day, we are very unusual that we have 2 who are both good enough up forward (or down back in Paddy's case) to allow us to have both in the team at once. It's hardly a requirement.
If something happens to Paddy, I have no doubt Thurlow will probably be promoted, but with only TBC down there is absolutely no reason to promote him.
Good to see somebody gave Johnny Rayner a vote so he doesn’t feel left out.
Umm it's not silly list management at all.
Having 2 seniors ready rucks is as many as you can really fit on an AFL list. When you have 3 who all deserve to be playing seniors, then chances are you lose at least 1 because you can't play them all (have we so quickly forgotten the problems caused by Hille, Paddy and TBC all being good enough for senior football?).
A ruck usually starts to really hit their stride between 23-25, Paddy and Bellchambers are both basically coming into what should be their prime. On top of that you have a young and highly rated Forward/Ruck in Daniher on the main list and a youngish slightly more physically developed rookie in Thurlow who will act as backup and hopefully develop so that by the time Paddy and TBC are starting to wind down in output a bit Daniher and Thurlow will be starting to fill the gap.
To be honest, as far as I am concerned that is as far from silly list management as you can get. If a serious injury happens to one of TBC or Paddy (as it sort of has), you still have 1 prime ruckman to carry the load with relief from one of the other talls in the team. For what it's worth, the majority of AFL teams run with only 1 primary ruckman on game day, we are very unusual that we have 2 who are both good enough up forward (or down back in Paddy's case) to allow us to have both in the team at once. It's hardly a requirement.
If something happens to Paddy, I have no doubt Thurlow will probably be promoted, but with only TBC down there is absolutely no reason to promote him.
So you're saying that our issue is we have 'too' many ruckman? That's certainly an interesting point of view.
i'm sorry, but most clubs have more than 2 afl ready ruckman on the main list. And if they don't, they run the risk of finding themselves in St Kilda's situation form last year.
I do agree that getting the balance right with ruckman is very tricky. If you have a very capable third ruck, he's likely to leave for better opportunities. I think Collingwood really nailed this last year, having Jolly as the main ruck, with Grundy and Pitt developing, and Hudson on the rookie list as insurance (which they used.). Luckily for them, Grundy came on much quicker than was expected.
It's all well and good saying that Thurlow only comes in if Paddy goes down, but depending on our list spots, that may not be possible.
But meh, lets watch the NAB first, and see how they all go
Umm no, my argument was that we have just the right number of Ruckman on the list:
2 senior AFL deserving ruckman
1 junior Forward/Ruck
1 rookie listed, physically developed ruckman with room for improvement.
I can see how if you expect there to be 2 ruckmen in the team each week, you might think that was light. However, my point was that Essendon is unusual in playing 2 ruckmen each week (only other club I can think of that does it is West Coast) and the far more common practice is to play 1 primary ruckman with another 1 or 2 players who can pinch hit but are primarily playing in another part of the ground.
Even if you say there should be 2 in the team each week, that's 2/22 players. That would mean logically on a 44 man AFL list (including rookies) you should have 4/44. That is how many we have.
False dichotomy there. Yes he's 21 and, theoretically, more mature physically, he's still a first year ruck so what the hell do you expect?He's 21 though, not an 18 year old project player.
Ummmmm mebbe becoz we think he can improve to a point where he will be...
Do you mean Thurlow?If he's not up to it yet, why would you bother?
If he's not up to it yet, why draft him? What's the point of putting a back up ruckman on the rookie list, if he's not capable of filling in for this very situation?
Personally, unless Steinberg is miles ahead of Hardingham as the medium forward, I wouldn't promote anybody until we need to.
I know now in 20/20 hindsight with TBC getting a moderate/large injury that may be silly, but it's not inconceivable that the coaches/recruiters thought Paddy/TBC would be OK for 1 or 2 years whilst Thurlow develops. Especially since Joe may be able to ruck even more in 2015.
Also of course we won't be promoting anyone until we need to. They only ever promote someone the Wednesday/Thursday before playing them that weekend.
I'd be surprised if they drafted him to have him develop for a few years until he's ready. And if they did, that's some silly list management. I saw his selection as a guy who could step into the team IF needed. He's not needed yet, we're only one ruckman down, but if we are two ruckman down, you'd ■■■■■■ well hope he's able to step in and at least make a decent contest.
Having to pull Daniher or Carlisle out of our forward line to ruck an entire game is not a situation I'd hope to find us in.
Keep in mind most of the mature age success stories were guys who'd been playing at a fair bit higher level than Queensland. Big, big step up.
@HAP
Yeah, good points. i certainly don't expect him to do well if he came in, but I'd hope he was actually capable of playing if needed. And unlike a few around here, I don't really rate Joe in the ruck either. I'd rather see a guy who is going to be a ruckman get his ■■■ handed to him, than watching the future of our forward line do the same. Plus, if Joe rucks, Pears probably comes in, and Hurley probably goes forward to cover Joe... It's way to much stuffing the balance around.
I'm being a simplistic I realise. Draft a rookie ruckman for backup, a main ruckman goes down, so bring in the rookie ruckman.
Anyway, i feel I've probably discussed this WAY too much, and based on what Bomber has stated publicly and the fact that ryder is still fit, its a fairly silly thing to be harping on about.
Either way
DELL
Hardy will be back up ruck. Has the leap