Rutten’s been head coach for 37 games so I thought I’d take a look at how he compares to some other recent coaches across their first 37 games. There’s obviously limitations to the data, probably the most obvious being that it doesn’t tell you about the strength of the team that they took over (which is why I didn’t include Chris Scott).
Firstly, progressive win percentage across first 37 games as coach (Ratten and Thompson colour coded by team):
Not to say Rutten will follow the path of those. You could add in a bunch of coaches who didn’t last beyond three years (and I did, see below) and place Rutten in the middle of the pack. I guess the key here for those who have kept their jobs is to start making winning more of a consistent enough thing not to have the board get nervous:
Im writing this a the same time as I dealing with bed time, so it may not read well, sorry .
I think I took your post too seriously and didn’t notice the humour. Sorry, that’s my bad and I’d don’t intend to ridicule
I’m happy to discuss points (I think I get far too sarcastic on here to my detriment) but not when naming calling gets involved, then I’ll back away.
As for the crux of your message, yea you are right you need to engage your audience, I guess we differ in that I think Rutten had their attention and they were listening. My guess would be the message is constant and the same all week and they just need the message reinforced
I have no doubt there is an element of (as I would put it) carry on, Rah, Rah, but that would be behind closed doors and not often.
As for the players, it’s a passionate game, hell I get excited when we kick a goal and I don’t have an issue with them celebrating
For me that’s different than coaching. Imo coaching needs to be measured, collected and the message clear (not denying that sometimes a gee is required, but in my experience it’s not as effective these days)
I have probably missed a point or two, if I have let me know and I’ll address when I can
Again sorry for not seeing the humour in your response
And my apologies for my regretful aggression, I guess the
Was like throwing petrol on a fire and I just over-reached in response.
You seem like a pretty genuine kind of person and I really appreciate your response.
I hear what you are saying … and you may well be right … the age of playing for the jumper, play for the glory, play for your mates may well have passed by.
Now they are professionals and play for the money.
Being a Queenslander by birth, I am used to seeing the NRL State of Origin players play for all of the above and more!
I still remember the Sheedy jacket wave … the symbolic stuff that stirs the spirit, the kind of stuff that makes teams dig deep and find that something that enables to win from behind 6 goals down.
The problem with the professionalism … is that statistically speaking … at a point when statistically you believe you will be beaten … you may as well give up … based on probability that is the sensible response. No point In throwing good money after bad. Cut your losses , avoid injury and save it for another day.
If you take that point of view, we played sensibly in the first half of the year.
I just don’t believe Ben really connects with the players in way that inspires.
Hey I can’t wait to see a player interview where one of them comes out and says we would do anything for that guy, bleed if necessary.
I certainly don’t think Jake would be saying it particularly after that presser on his first game back after injury.
As much as i hated him as a player i could listen to bucks talk all day, rutten on the other hand I’d start drifting off into thinking about what i might to get up to when i get home from work when he starts rolling out his boring cliches. He is not as boring as worsfold, but comes pretty close. I think as a good coach you have to be someone worth listening to long term and the players have to fear you a little bit.
Timing is everything. If we don’t move for Clarko this year, we will never be able to get him, as he isn’t waiting around another year just in case.
Any sort of offensive improvement back to matching last year makes no difference. Particularly when bottom of the ladder awful West Coast side, went coast to coast every time they got the ball and showed we don’t have much of a defensive structure.
It seems everytime we have won, we have thrown out the gameplan and won on heart. Three years in a row he hasn’t been able to put that defensive game plan in place. You can’t just keep hoping he can suddenly implement it now if another year was given. Something has to give.
Agree! I would think an extremely important factor in a successful coach is also having everyone’s respect and having the players listening and hanging on their every word when he needs too. They have to be able to get the players switched on, focused and pumped on game day.
He has to be able to get the most out of our players every training and every game. I’m not sure if Rutten has that demeanor or connection with the players.
I also agree you have to allow time with coaches to find their way and everything can come together like Hardwick and Bomber Thomson.
There have been moments this year where I have cracked it and come the conclusion that Rutten doesn’t have the necessary attributes to be a great head coach; but times where the team have rallied, responded and played what looks like a good brand of football.
There are some things that he cannot be held accountable for (e.g. injuries) and for that I wonder whether it is irrelevant who our head coach is as the club is not organised/structured in a manner that drives a relentlessly winning culture (minus any cheating of course!). So bringing in Clarkson would possibly not yield the sugar hit most would expect but could end up being a Malthouse to Carlton situation.
Some have pointed out that over the last few years our first half of the season compared to second half of the season is chalk and cheese. I think this is a key point to his retention. We have to fix our season starts whilst ensuring we continue our trend of finishing seasons strongly. Rutten and his coaches need to work out why this is happening and how to arrest it next year and beyond. If I were reviewing the footy department those are the 2 questions I want answers to before making any decision about whether Rutten is the right coach or not. He has to have a clear understanding of this and a clear strategy on how to tackle this; he gets brownie points if he also explains what he will change/implement if his strategy isn’t working.
Some things will be working in his favour;
He is relatively new in the role as outright senior coach
The playing list is very young with some clear list gaps
The injuries and ‘high performance’ of the team have not helped him
On the surface at least it seems he is popular with the playing group
Ultimately I think the club would be remiss in their duty if they didn’t speak to Clarkson and sound him out so fair play if this has driven the story; at the very least this should give Rutten a wake up call telling him he needs to do something different as the honeymoon is well and truly over! If it isn’t Clarkson; it’ll be someone else that will take his place.
the simple answer to why it happens is…
the pressure comes off and expectations of what it expected lower.
then they get to simply play and enjoy their footy and they go out and play with freedom in their head.
I’ve said it before and i’ll keep saying it, this club and it’s players do not handle pressure and expectation well, it’s apart of their mental fragility when it comes to a football sense, there’s still a football culture at the club (i’ll call it the daniher vibe) where they simply want to play footy with a bunch of their mates and have fun, instead of being successful.
It could also be a relativity thing.
Like a horse race, some horses are back markers, some front runners and some just off the pace.
Perhaps our success in the back half is relative to how stuffed the competition gets relative to us. If we are walking around hands on hips and not putting in in the first half we probably have a lot left in the tank in the second half and we come up against teams that by then are a little battle weary and ripe pickings.
Then we hit finals … it becomes do or die … and no matter how battle weary
the opposition might be, they know it’s everything or nothing … and unfortunately we haven’t earnt the right to compete by standing up in the front half of the season when the heat is on and everyone is fresh.
I think if Rutten stays on, he must be set a goal of finishing no worse than 6-4 in our first 10 next year, preferably 7-3. Given our softer draw this should be mandatory … or he is out mid season ala Bucks.
We are on track for another bottom 4 finish… our defence is woeful and our season was over by quarter time of Round 1… but we have a win against Swans and suddenly everyone wants to keep this loser??
I don’t get it. You can graph all you like… Rutten will never ever win a premiership. His system is kaka.
If we have even the slightest chance at Clarkson you have to pursue him. Failing that… I’d get Hird back. If you stick with Rutten… I can tell you how it will go… hype hype hype all summer… and then demolished for the first 6 rounds… then we ‘abandon’ the game plan and get a few wins and hang around mid table… maybe even scrape into 8th place.
Can’t believe we are still talking about the coach… how he has survived I have no idea.
I an impatient but have read the last 500 posts i was firmly in the canon Rutten camp for Clarko but have thought about list management decisions Clarko would make like possibly trading out Jones and Bryan or somebody else so maybe stay the course to see if Rutten is building something because Blitz couldnt handle what Clarko would bring in an upheaval
Just throwing a scenario out there could be different names but Clarko would have a good idea of a list he wants and would trade to suit like he did at the Hawks
