Im way behind on this thread. But this exchange sums it all up.
We aren’t far behind, but we are in some ways including gameplan and cohesion. But so were the Pies, so it can turn quickly. Whether it does is another question.
I think Zerrett, McG and Parish have it in them to deliver.
Who from our squad would push into the Pies line-up as it stands?
I’m thinking Fanta, Smith, Heppell, maybe Zerrett & maybe Hooker.
We have a lot of work to do.
What seems to be making the difference and is becoming standard for all successful teams is players and coaches telling their stories to each other and really caring about each other on a deep level. The other element is learning how to control minds, with Richmond embracing mindfulness meditation and learning how visualise themselves at their best and getting their mind into that space. This is a very subtle complex thing, but if a side can nail this, they can truly maximise their abilities. This headspace has always been the essence of elite performance, but manufacturing it is something that sport is only beginning to learn, and it will be a frontier that will be emphasised more and more as time goes on.
But that’s the whole bizarre thing about “modern footy” - and the psychology thereof.
Teams just flick a switch.
Tigers were one of the lazier sides in the comp in 2016. Talented, but lazy work rate off the ball. Until suddenly they decide they’re not, and they go and make 2-3 very good sides look very very bad in last year’s finals. Then a Collingwood side that’s done nothing for 5 years decide “stuff this”, and out-do them, at their own game, by a very very long way.
I’m not sure there’s any rhyme or reason to it - at least not that we can see from the outside. I’m not sure any of the coaches drastically change what they’re doing (OK, with the exception of the odd pre-season bus trip), and I’m sure they’re as all annoyed at the ups and downs as we are.
Nobody’s worked out how to fix it, though.
I think it would be a lot more than that.
So many that I cant really be bothered.
Also: wim, agreeing with me? Go home you’re drunk. (Or, come out and drink, you’re sober)
Trust me, I’m as scared as you are.
Agreed…lets hope the lost opportunity that has been 2018 is a massive driving force for the upcoming preseason.
Chris Mayne will be a premiership player
Jobe Watson never came close
Doesn’t sit right with me…
What the actual? How can you possibly say that about teams like the dogs & tiges & just ignore the reality of the players they had. Arguably Mcrae, arguably Cotchin & Prestia are you serious - they are & were in those seasons top level midfielders. How can you ignore players like Libba & Hunter who had very good years in 2016?
I couldn’t disagree more with the idea that Hawthorn at their peak wouldn’t have beaten WB & or Richmond. I absolutely believe those 2 premiers were the result of weak years not some radical change in the game over the last 2 years. Both teams benefited massively from having a soulless GWS as their opponents in a Prelim & then coming up against an interstate side that plays the MCG 1-2 times a year. I think Hawthorn circa 2014 would have routinely dismantled both of those sides.
hopefully what we achieved in the second half of the season will be the “proof” to the players for where they need to have their game (mentally and skill wise and footy smarts) week in week out if they are going to make it.
But then - you can go he’s a good player, he’s a good player, he’s a good player etc - when in reality it is a lot about HOPING we can put it all together. Seriously, I forget when I’ve gone to a game in recent years really really believing and trusting that we would win.
what if we had inside mids that could actually pressure? looking at 2 tallish left footers.
Except Collingwood haven’t ‘done nothing for five years’… they were very competitive last year in the face of a lot of injuries. They’ve improved each year, for several years, if you look at more than just wins and losses. Teams don’t just flick a switch and go from rubbish to good overnight.??? Melbourne, Collingwood, Richmond, were years in the making, with the last 12 months looking like accelerated improvement because wins stand out more than competitive losses.
It takes time for players to mature and learn how to play in a developing side, how to look after themselves and avoid injury, play with injury, build muscle and stamina etc. We’ve got a long way to go - it’s wishful thinking that we’re almost equal with Melb and Collingwood but for a lack of effort in some games. Pro sport isnt a B grade sport movie where the underdog turns it around overnight just because they were more determined
Its not just a mental switch, you have to have the right physical mix as well. Collingwood 2018 just isn’t the same side as it was in 17/16, they’ve added the best 1st year player for example & also gotten some new faces like Mihochek, Sier, Murray (earlier in the year), Cox & they have also finally managed to get Degoey fit. The old “its taken years to become an overnight success story” is very much the reality in the AFL. Collingwood had a pretty obvious strategy to pump their resources into re-building their midfield & some here used to laugh at them for it. They are now reaping the rewards from that plan. Cox was outstanding last night but they made top 4 with him kicking 1 per game & last night was his 1st goal from 3 finals.
I reckon it would be amazing how ‘unlazy’ players like Zaka would look if we had a stronger midfield group.
The switch can be, and usually is, switched by circumstances creating a group mindset, and classically we are able to do it when there is no expectation and can play without the mental pressure of expectation. Collingwood no doubt benefited from that last night, and Cox playing with confidence on a ridiculously big stage helped a lot (it will be interesting to see if he can bring that confidence next week).
But there are some great articles on how the Tigers manufactured it last year, and it gets harder to play with the hunger that is needed the more success you have. As they say in the classics, the other side just wants it more.
Manufacturing the ability to turn the switch will never be an exact science, but what Dustin Martin and the Tigers did last year and carried through 22 consecutive wins at the 'G is the closest we have seen so far, given they did it quite consciously, and we haven’t seen the last of them, their consistent mental toughness was overcome last night by a side having a good night, after having a very average season in terms of the sides they actually beat.
But it must be said, Collingwood didn’t lose to a single side outside the 8 and I don’t think Melbourne did either - that speaks to their total lack of Essington mode, and now at the end of the year, they are finding a new gear.
Mental freshness and fatigue controls physical performance much more than anyone cares to admit.
They weren’t competitive last year, FFS we rolled them twice and very easily mind you.
They weren’t total poo, they were just in mid table mediocrity. Good at times, bad at other times, just like us and 6-8 other sides most years.
They certainly weren’t playing like we saw last night…
So why do you think we choose to ignore a contested style? I wonder why…My point was we don’t tckle hard as a team and like the harder contested stuff consistently enough to give it a crack at the top 4. So you ignore the obvious data, tell me that there are numerous ways to win a game (wow) and then tell me inside isn’t where we lack but don’t give anything to suggest otherwise, other than trying to say some teams might play more games in wet conditions.
In tackles we averaged in the last 3 years 17th, 14th and 8th, 13th in one %'ers this year, 9th in clearances this year, 12th in stoppgages this year…again I could go on from all the previous years and from all the stats… but it’s clear you’ve got your mind up. The stats are there for every year for the last 6 or so years and I didn’t go before then. Yes, based on raw data and averages we fail in contested/tackling/1 %'ers and equivalent stats. You can dispute some of those games but evidence from the last decade back my side up.
Yes, some teams consciously choose not to play a harder inside game that relies on stoppages, maybe that’s, because their strength is NOT doing this? If our strength is playing fast outside work then yes, obviously we’ll try and avoid stoppages? We’re a fast moving quick football team, other teams will try and negate this. You tackle us hard, slow it down, and we’re cooked.
Yes, there are conditions that can fluctuate some of those stats, but every year we suck for the most part in these. EVERY YEAR. And you want to tell me that our tackling and contested ball winning isn’t the issue, when uncontested totals/averages are usually top few and all the other inside stats say we’re bottom 8? We have no issue with loose ball, we have big issues winning hard balls and tackling hard. You’re welcome to disagree but whilst you can argue that those stats are prone to negating factors (yes, there are), you give no proof or anything to suggest we are GOOD at it? Most people with their eyes can tell outside of Watson we’ve lacked a tackling system and most people can probably tell hard tackling isn’t our strong suit.
What?
Also, please continue to throw up more stats about 2016. I’m beginning to wonder if having 8 of our best 12 players on the sidelines a week before the year started was a good tactical move at all. A few more stats should prove it.