If I could say this in the nicest possible way, that was the first post you made on the subject without being a ■■■■.
Before that, you were all…we’re enjoying ourselves and everyone else can go hang.
It’s not endearing, and to say you were always engaged in honest debate is just flat out wrong.
Personally I think the pokies should at the very least be regulated so that the returns to players are significantly increased. I know that the claim is that they return something like 87% but the reality is that is too low. I remember when i was in Las Vegas the casinos advertised their returns & most were in the mid to high 90’s & they still made a killing with more competition than anywhere. For mine its not so much these percentages (when was the last time they were checked & players refunded for faulty machines???) The returns should be made to more fairly represent the odds. If the chances of getting 5 symbols is 1000-1 then the payout should be closer to that figure. I’ve read before that the highest possible combination on some machines is something like 1M to 1 yet the payout for getting that 1 in a million is say 500 x your bet. Its mathematically unfair. Imagine Powerball only paid 10K for 1st division. Everything else was the same but the return was that much smaller - would people still play? I think thats a closer representation of the pokies.
I would like to see some genuine studies done where every player is monitored & the true in/out figures released. If lets say 100 people enter a venue all with $100 each to play the machines, how much actual $$ leaves that venue on average every day. I think that figure would shock most players. At the very least I believe people deserve to know.
I would have no issue at all if pokies were either significantly reduced or even banned completely. I agree with the criticisms others here have mentioned about the negative impacts they continue to have on some families & I don’t really believe any venue does enough to help obviously problem gamblers.
Having said all that I have no issue at all with the EFC operating a legal & financially advantageous venture. As long as the machines are legal then why not see some of the profits going towards the clubs financial security? The alternative is the profits go to Woolies, Coles or some other company & we here see no benefits at all. Worse still Bruce Mathieson would probably buy them & some of the money goes to farkCarlton. EFC selling their licence doesn’t change anything for gamblers, it doesn’t address their issues, it doesn’t reduce the pokies numbers or make them fairer. All it does is shift the profits - thats it.
The EFC should not concern themselves with trying to be some perfectly virtuous corporate citizen. The club sells clothing made in 3rd world countries, kicks balls made of slaughtered animal hide. Our sponsors sell carbon producing fossil fuel supporting vehicles & air conditioners. Others use old growth trees to produce furniture or produce alcohol which has a very similar social impact to pokies. In other words - you can’t possibly live up to everyone’s moral perfection & you shouldn’t try. Its legal, its profitable & it would be unprofessional & against the clubs best interest to consider abandoning the licence.
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My opinions on pokies are my own.
They have nothing to do with what anyone else thinks.
My views on this specific topic have nothing to do with pokies as a good or bad thing.
I have views on that, but they’re irrelevant.
My issue, as far as the club goes, is that they very proudly said they were getting out of pokies.
And a lot of people, myself included, said ‘well done.’
And then this.
Nothing right now, though.
That was a year and a half ago.
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I’ve said it before, people should need to get a Pokie License to play, … or Gamble in any form maybe.
Gambling industry pays, properly run org delivers the course, … educates about addiction, the troubles it can cause etc.
Then license is linked up to know income etc., and straight up, if all your income is, is welfare, the License which you must swipe in a machine to play it, … simply won’t allow you to do so.
If you are an aged pensioner, … won’t let you blow more than 10 15 or 20% of it per Fort night etc.
Something along those lines would not be all that hard to set up, if it was accepted as reasonable with all it’s checks & balances nutted out etc, … then it would just need the Political will.
The Political will to extract the Government mouth from the Pokies Teat that is.
I am not sure I have been a prikk, but as you are one of the Blitzers that I respect I will accept your view.
Issues of addiction are community issues, and all of us are a part of it.
Well, that’s sweet of you to say.
And I agree with you on the second thing.
Dear Wim, I am never sweet, but my heart is true.
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I don’t think anyone on here will be at all concerned with you Bacchus, or anyone else spending a few dollars that they can clearly afford without starving the kids, on entertainment via legal gambling where they have the addiction possibility well under control.
I think some on here would prefer our footy club finds other ways of earning revenue that are not related so directly to suffering of some persons and their families who cannot control their addiction.
I think many people are concerned by the gambling research that shows the very strong link between casinos and the incidence of crime and suffering within the neighbouring communities. I haven’t seen equivalent research for other forms of gambling.
We probably all agree that gambling in some forms should be legal, well regulated, and the gambling industry (ie those that profit from it) rather than the taxpayer should pay the full cost of dealing with the social problems that their product causes.
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I don’t know about the melton country club, but the few pokie venues I worked at along the way had the old either photo on the board or photo in a book of all the people who had registered themselves on the "not suppose to gamble "register.
I’m not sure if it was state wide or area wide but one place I think had a state wide one and there were way too many pictures to try and remember for one person let alone staff of people.
not sure how the id scanner would work outside of the casino but that’d be about the only way it’d work.
Good post. Long before we were born gambling existed in Australia. There were underground bookies and my Dad worked for one. Its true whatever the authorities ban, seemed to spring up underground and thrive. Like the liquor laws in the sixties and seventies anyone could buy what we called “sly grog” if you knew some who knew someone. That was in the days of 6p.m. closing and pubs were closed on weekends except for some who accepted travellers who had accommodation in the hotel. That was another way around getting a drink out of hours. Reading our history it has ever been thus. Australians love to gamble on anything, we are famous for it. The Chinese are pretty good too.
So is legalizing anything a better idea? Probably but enforcing the laws has always been problematic.
And; the crims who seem to be always one step ahead of those who make the laws of preventation, those who. want to will always find a way to work around it. So looking at our history, time has passed and we are still doing much of the same.
In Europe it is a photo ID check before you can get entry. In Barcelona we didn’t have our Passports with us, and they recently let us in using our Drivers Licences.
Interesting that Casinos in Europe are not that large and usually empty.
Agree, and that should extend to the tobacco and alcohol industries too.
You want more tax on tobacco and alcohol. Soon excise tax will be nearly $1 per ciggie !! Tax on Wine is about 29% and Beer over 50%.
That is the opposite of what I said. The industry should foot the bill, not taxpayers - either directly by tax on the product, or indirectly through alternate tax revenue streams.
I don’t smoke, but I strongly oppose the constant tax increases on cigarettes because it disproportionately impacts low-income populations. And while I do drink, the same argument holds for taxes on alcohol too.
If an industry gets higher costs like more taxes then they pass it on to the consumer. Think it is called capitalism.
I hate EGM’s and I hate that the EFC is addicted to the revenue from these machines. I do respect people’s rights to play the machines. We need to 1) slow the machines down 2) limit bet limits per spin 3) maximum 18 hours trading per day 4) more natural light in the venues. That will be a great start.
That is true, but if the impetus is put upon industry, then they have to balance a pricing structure which allows sufficient sales to maintain a profit.
The more I think about it, the more of an ethical minefield it becomes. If Australia was to enforce a policy like that, there is nothing stopping companies from robbing Peter to pay Paul and taking more money from poorer countries with much higher rates of smoking and drinking.
Yep, let’s start this argument all over again.
If you respect my right to play pokies and lose my money, then fark off and leave me and my entertainment alone.
And you don’t think that does not already happen ???
They definitely are, the machines go back to the factory at the end of their program and get checked, and have a new program loaded.
It’s randomised, but completely predetermined.
(I know someone who used to work there)