No.
I can’t be having with that.
As long as he makes his problem others peoples problem, then no, it’s not the same.
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Yep, pretty much what I was going to say too.
Exactly, No one here is attempting to defend this guy
How?
I don’t want to argue semantics, but how is a person who feels he has no choice but to take his own life and maybe the lives of people he loves, not a victim as well? A victim of thought processes that are not rational. I look in disbelief and horror every time I see one of these cases where a father goes nuts and kills himself, his kids, his ex/partner or any combination of the three. How does any rational person choose to do that? I am not victim blaming here. Those that are murdered are not at fault, but that does not mean that the perpetrator can’t be a victim also.
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I get what you’re saying, but thats dramatically overstating it when he killed three of the victims.
Edit: four
Four.
And he doused them all in ■■■■■■■ petrol. That in itself is more pain than a child or partner should endure - let alone setting them on fire. And that’s just how it ended.
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Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think this POS is a victim at all. He was abusive long before this and this was act was obviously premeditated. You don’t just show up at your ex’s and douse them and your kids with petrol and light them up by mistake.
You said ‘as much a victim.’
However far gone he was, he had a choice.
He could have said, nah. That’s a farked idea.
His victims did not have that choice.
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I’ve just been reading articles, and he recently, ‘allegedly’, tried to break her wrist after questioning him about following her - when there was already a restraining order.
(I’m sorry- my partner works in a field where she deals with domestic violence all the time, and her family has been tragically, in the proper sense of the word, defined by it. This sort of situation just triggers me. I sort of understand the what @Lifetime_ban is trying to say - culture/ideology/particular biography etc - but it’s not a consideration for me in this case.)
I would never defend this bloke, but society out there helps make crazy angry ex-husbands more crazy and more angry.
The second Mrs Fox is the Mother of my three kids (who are now very much adults), and at the time of our marriage bust up they were all under 7. She had left our home, moved in with her parents and I was given acccess to the kids every 2nd week-end. Fark me, every second Monday morning when I dropped them and returned to an empty house was soul destroying.
I was alone, angry, with few friends, as they had taken sides or just stayed away. I was drinking too much and egged on by the blokes I worked with. I sought help, and found a group called “Non-custodial Parents without Rights”. I called the number and spoke with a guy who seemed caring and supportive, and he invited me to a group meeting in Carrum the next night.
There were about 8 at the meeting 7 blokes and I woman; they welcomed me, listened to my bitter story, nodding their collective heads in argument as I spewed my bile about Mrs Fox 2 and life in general. They then proceeded to give me a rundown on what would happen next; loss of assets, loss of all rights, ex-wive making access to kids difficult, higher child support and a host of other horror stories about Family Court, the cost of Lawyers, loss of friends etc, etc, etc. They then started talking about actions they would like to take to help their own situations which included violence against former partners and their new “friends”, violence against other family members and Family Court officials.
I was right into it, then suddenly the lights came on; these people were just a group that helped foster hate and aggression and I was going down the toilet with htem. I left and as I drove back to Diamond Creek where I lived then, (and it is a long way) I vowed that I would not become them. I found old friends and restarted my life, and while the angst between Mrs Fox 2 and I did not go away completely for 20 years, I could work with her so that we both made the best of the situation, and the kids were not victims.
When I read about this sad event in Qld, I did identify with the Father, and while I can never understand why you would ever do such a thing, I know that without support this will continue to happen.
So if you have any friends with a marriage in crisis do not be a stranger.
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I dont think you’re defending him or diminishing what he did at all.
And I agree with you that it’s good to work out what we can learn from these scenarios, rather than just “psycho dude does psycho thing”. How that man got to be that way is very very relevant and worthy of consideration.
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Interesting story. And you were right to walk away from that group.
What you’re talking about is exactly what I said.
You can investigate this stuff and hopefully make corrections.
And that Should happen.
These men have had their lives deeply affected in a negative way.
But they weren’t burned alive by their father as children, so…let’s just keep perspective with the language, all I’m saying.
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The labeling of these acts as “evil” or the perpetrator as “evil” also diminishes the issue that it’s actually just another guy. That was what Jill Magher’s partner also said: stop pretending this is an act of another world. It is here. He is sitting in front of me in court.
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I’d also say that just because something can be explained does not in any way make it acceptable.
Or forgivable.
Or equal.
The whole ‘people who abuse were abused’ or ‘that’s how they grew up’ is a reason, it’s not an excuse.
Bullies bully not because they don’t know any better, they’ve seen people who do Not aggressively force their will and poor behaviour on others their whole lives, they do it because they’ve learned those skills and they know it works.
They absolutely make that choice.
For themselves.
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Definitely seems the factor of manipulation is a key sign. You don’t do that unless you are aware of it and think that you are an exception from others in that it’s ok for you to use it.
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Not sure what you mean by this. Is that that they were owned or assets ? I could never get in to the mind of some-one who does these things.
I’m talking about the ‘also a victim’ thing.
Yes, but actually no.
A victim of something that probably made them quite resentful.
Let’s just agree not to put that on the same level as being burned alive with your family by the guy who was supposed to love you more than anyone.
Not to cheapen things, but as Jules said, that ain’t the same ballpark, ain’t the same league, it ain’t even the same farking sport.
Examine, sure. But don’t compare because it’s beyond wrong and into offensive.
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Absolutely agree.
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