Fark we were spoiled with Lloyd and Lucas…
Our leading patterns from the forward line are rubbish. I carefully watched the Hawthorn forward line on Friday and the difference was that they would continue with their leads even if they were ignored. Half hearted leads result in a lack of separation, you need to keep running to create space behind you for the next guy. I coach basket ball occasionally and I tell the kids that when we have the ball we all have to run into space. Even if the carrier doesn't pass the ball to you the act of running into space creates space behind you for the next kid to run into.
I said that earlier in one of these threads that we lead like we don’t mean it.
Its basic in any ball sport like this. That’s what I don’t understand, seeing our forwards standing still with opposition players next to them. I watch it on TV and its harder, but standing still is standing still. Never stood still when we played basketball, our coach would have had a fit, and dragged us.
That’s why it’s hard to believe it’s as simple as that. All it would take is a message from a runner. If they’re going to stand around and ignore it then serious consequences you’d imagine.
Fark we were spoiled with Lloyd and Lucas...
We were also spoiled with Ryan O’Connor and Scott Cummings compared to where we are now.
But we’ve had great forwards since late 80s (TD, Roger, Salmon, Vanders, Harvey, etc).
The forward line has been a revolving door since the end of 2012. You look at the top sides like Hawthorn and even a side like Adelaide, their forward groups have been together for a minimum of 3 years. They get used to playing together, knowing each others strengths, running patterns, the role each player plays. They work hard for one another as well. We simply have had too much personnel change recently, added to that pretty shoddy delivery from further afield. Joe Daniher has been stymied the whole time he has been at the club. Every year he’s been there we have been affected by the Saga, but also plyers have come and gone from the attack (Crameri, Ryder, Carlisle, Hooker this year etc) so he’s had zero chance to build an understanding with anyone. We have to settle it down from 2017 onwards. We need to recruit for that part of the ground. Most importantly we have to allow these blokes to play together and build that chemistry.
Parish and zerret are mids and will start there regardless of who returns next year.That’s a problem alot of people aren’t seeing yet though.
Where do you play stanton ?
where do you play watson ?
heppell ?
coyler ?
Goddard?
Hocking ?
myers ?and prolly a couple of others i’m missing. All are midfielders or want to play there. not all can fit in there.
who do you honestly think is gonna get first crack at starting mid next year ?If zerrett and parish are in there great, but i’m betting unless injury restricts someone, they won’t be starting mid and will spend less than 50 % gametime in there, until the dust settles from the old guys returning.
which does nothing for the forwardline IMO because again we would be trying to force midfielders to play up there, instead of finding forwards who can cover in the midfield for short bursts.
There’s way too many essendon culture mistakes that have continued on this year, despite half the list gone from last year and new coaches, for me to say or feel confidence Zerrett and parish would be starting mids next year, above and beyond other “senior” players.
I just think parish and zerret both look like 2 of the best pure mids we have had in forever. They can both do everything and i have no problem with thrusting them right into the coal face with support and rotation from our senior players that they aren’t getting this year. The more games these guys play together in the midfield the better as far as I’m concerned.
Right now my starting 22 is something like:
Bags Hartley Francis
Tippa Hurley ???Zaha hepp Fanta
Luey parish zerrettLav JD colyer
Jobe hooker ???Stanton, Langford, ???, ???
Obviously there are a few holes there and a few names that it will be controversial to leave out but I think it is going to be tricky to find the right balance between our bigger slower players and the younger quicker ones.
Hepp comes back as our number 1 big bodied mid. He, parish and zerret are going to get on famously.
I have no issue with jobe playing more forward than mid and I think he will be a real weapon as a second string mid who shares his work with Langford. This will sound laughable but I think jobe can be an asset as a crumbing forward who will create goals for others as well as take his own marks and create awkward match ups.
Stanton is going to love the lower rotations and having gut running support from zerret, parish, fanta and a rejevunated zaha. I really think Stanton could be set for a massive year next year and I think he’ll slide pretty comfortably between a mid, half back, half forward role and he is going to be way down the list of people to tag. I really think he has plenty of good footy ahead of him and is being undersold around here.
I don’t see colyer as a full time mid and don’t think he has ever played that role but he, Fanta and lav will all swing between forward and on ball providing pace all over the ground. Lav is obviously a little different with his size and aerial ability but I still think he will fit in with these 2 in a rotation that will create awkward match ups for the opposition.
Where the uncertainty lies for me is how Myers, Hocking, bj, bird and howlett fit in. All are a bit one paced and Myers and Hocking in particular feel a bit one demensional.
Sure Myers may come back and absolutely demand a spot in the side ahead of Langford for example but I just don’t have that much faith in his body and with parish and zerret really establishing their cred as inside/outside players im not sure there is too much room for him along side hepp and jobe.
I certainly have room for one self sacrificing, gut busting, defensive, contested ball animal but not 3 so Hocking/howlett/bird will have an interesting preseason. Bird is the zippiest, howlett the most polished and Hocking the biggest animal so all have something to offer. It will be really interesting to see what happens.
Bj is obviously the most flexible and least defensive player of this group. For mine the challenge for him is to accept being a role player for the greater good of the team and one who plays within himself a bit more, fewer attempts at 60m laser punts, more honoring tippa’s run with a handball. Even so his leg speed is a worry for a team that will already have jobe, hepp, Stanton, and one of the defensive mids.
I’ve left the back flank open in that 22 and some would slot bj straight in their but I’m inclined to favor the extra run of Gleeson/pig/demps.
If you fill 3 of ???s with Hocking, bj, pig I think Myers misses and you play another young runner with a bit of toe. And that doesn’t even take into account the possibility of playing an extra tall like brown.
What is clear though is that the best sides can play at serious pace and our 2012 - 2015 drip slow midfield will get absolutely cut to ribbons. Just keep that in mind when wondering whether pushing up parish and zerret is a priority.
It is going to be one of the most interesting preseasons in recent memory.
I skimmed over this post, and FWIW I agree with your assessments.
My issue has always been what we the supporters see, and what the coaches see are most of the time totally different things.
I agree both Zerrett and parish almost need to be the midfield we build around as of rd1 next year.
I just think there’s too much ingrained familiarity with certain players that will be coming back. Whether worsfold sticks to it to, only time will tell.
But LIke i’ve said a few times, The essendon culture (outside of the drugs saga) is just absolutely putrid at present, So while in theory what you say should happen and I hope it does, There’s just too many forces behind the scenes who will want the status quo to continue next year, and it’s well simply hard to break bad habits in any context, let alone across a whole footy club.
Kudos to the well thought out reply (and the guy who did the math about every getting equal parts midfield and forward time).
I’ll be hoping your theory is one the coaches look at hard, and take it on board.
So, you’re suggesting there’s an ingrained culture or influences around the club who want to put 2015’s midfield back into place in 2017 and don’t want to even use any progress made this season let alone keep progressing next season?
Small forwards are easy to find, just give me a pick.Ben, Have you seen Tyson Stengle from the S.A. U18 side ? Has played well in the carnival and prolific goal scorer in SANFL Ressies. Few bags of 5 goals. Reminds of Eddie Betts and Steve Milne. Appears to have a few tricks.
Sounds like an unfinished version of that West Coast Eagles premiership player from 2006
this is an interesting article on the round ball code and how good teams have an intrinsic understanding of what each individual member of the team are meant to be doing in response to a given situation.
this is something i was touching on, probably in a few different threads, earlier in the week. Basically the hawks have it in spades and have done for years which is why they have dominated the comp for so long. they play with a level of organisation that is quite frankly unprecedented in our game. It drives some purists mad because it involves a lot of chipping the ball around within the well oiled machine and little individual flare or kicking to contests unless you are out of options. say what you like about clarkson but he has changed the game of Australian football, probably forever, in a very significant way.
anyway, it is something worth bearing in mind the next time gleeson comes running through the back of the square and just as he goes to kick to JD Jd turns back towards goal and his defender moves into the ball for an uncontested mark. We are a team that makes individual decisions in individual moments rather than the decision our system of play dictates that we should. consequently we look disjointed an awful lot of the time.
Of course woosh may be telling Joe to peel back to the square when he is the furthest man forward and 60 meters away from the guy streaming through the centre of the ground and he may be telling gleeson to run and bounce and use the space ahead of him. wtf do i know after all. the point remains though that jd and glees are on different pages of the play book far more often than they are on the same page.
i don’t know yet if woosh is a systems coach. i think hird was definitely a win the contest win the game coach, ‘farken brave at the ball’ and all that. while there is no doubt that that is still an important part of the game if your players can’t cohesively implement and understand a system of play it doesn’t matter how much contested ball you can win (our contested ball numbers have been pretty good in some pretty bad losses this year). regardless it is going to take woosh and the players a little while yet to get on the same page regularly.
getting a few handy players back will be pretty useful too but even so this group is going to need some time together. only time will tell if woosh can keep up with clarko and his proteges in designing and teaching a modern football system to our list.
Watching the game on Friday, it really hit home how stupid our football is at the moment. I hadn’t been to a game in a while, but we made poor decisions on such a frequent basis. Whose fault it is I have no idea.
For example.
Zaha marked defensive side on the wing near the boundary. He goes back and looks at options. Brown is about 65m out, on the boundary, waving his hands. His man is about 7-8 m inboard of him. Both standing still. Zaha looks around, waits, and then kicks to about 65m out halfway between the square and the boundary. Brown’s man comes over and helps out his teammate, takes the mark, dishes off and its shortly back up their end.
Now, I have no idea if Zaha was instructed to kick there, and Brown wasn’t where he should be. Or if Brown was fine, but Zaha made a putrid decision. But completely agree with Ivan that our players are not on the same wavelength. And it happened a heap of times.
Watching the game on Friday, it really hit home how stupid our football is at the moment. I hadn't been to a game in a while, but we made poor decisions on such a frequent basis. Whose fault it is I have no idea.For example.
Zaha marked defensive side on the wing near the boundary. He goes back and looks at options. Brown is about 65m out, on the boundary, waving his hands. His man is about 7-8 m inboard of him. Both standing still. Zaha looks around, waits, and then kicks to about 65m out halfway between the square and the boundary. Brown’s man comes over and helps out his teammate, takes the mark, dishes off and its shortly back up their end.
Now, I have no idea if Zaha was instructed to kick there, and Brown wasn’t where he should be. Or if Brown was fine, but Zaha made a putrid decision. But completely agree with Ivan that our players are not on the same wavelength. And it happened a heap of times.
And why is Brown standing still? Can’t imagine that’s an instruction. Find a really good place and stand still. But most of the team seem to have the same instruction. Stand still.
Sam Day (Suns) is clunking them today.He’s out of contract.
Might be a better cheaper option than Patton or Jenkins.
I would chip into the salary to try and lure Peter Wright to come. Kid will be a jet
He’s an Essendon lad, and doesn’t like the culture up in GC. We could get him if we wanted him.
Sam Day (Suns) is clunking them today.He’s out of contract.
Might be a better cheaper option than Patton or Jenkins.
I would chip into the salary to try and lure Peter Wright to come. Kid will be a jet
He’s an Essendon lad, and doesn’t like the culture up in GC. We could get him if we wanted him.
Did he support us as a kid? I didn’t know that.
Sam Day (Suns) is clunking them today.He’s out of contract.
Might be a better cheaper option than Patton or Jenkins.
I would chip into the salary to try and lure Peter Wright to come. Kid will be a jet
He’s an Essendon lad, and doesn’t like the culture up in GC. We could get him if we wanted him.
Did he support us as a kid? I didn’t know that.
He played for Moonee Valley in junior, whether he was an Essendon supporter as a kid I have no idea.
Also, if he hates it so much, why did he sign a contract extension?
PETER Wright has signed a contract extension that will keep him at Gold Coast until the end of 2017.
As revealed by AFL.com.au earlier on Tuesday, Wright’s new deal is for an extra year.
The key forward taken at No.8 in the 2014 AFL Draft said he was rapt to extend his deal.
“This gives me the chance to become the player that both I, and the club, want me to be,” Wright said.
"I’m incredibly grateful to the club for their commitment and belief in me and I can’t wait to get out there and play some good footy.”
Wright, from Victoria, played three games in his debut season, but with Charlie Dixon traded to Port Adelaide during the off-season, looks set for more senior action in 2016.
The 19-year-old lives with good mate and fellow Vic Metro product Touk Miller and said he was loving his time at the club.
“We have a really close group of players and we are all excited in the direction of the club,” he said.
Sam Day (Suns) is clunking them today.He’s out of contract.
Might be a better cheaper option than Patton or Jenkins.
I would chip into the salary to try and lure Peter Wright to come. Kid will be a jet
He’s an Essendon lad, and doesn’t like the culture up in GC. We could get him if we wanted him.
Did he support us as a kid? I didn’t know that.
He played for Moonee Valley in junior, whether he was an Essendon supporter as a kid I have no idea.
Also, if he hates it so much, why did he sign a contract extension?
PETER Wright has signed a contract extension that will keep him at Gold Coast until the end of 2017.
As revealed by AFL.com.au earlier on Tuesday, Wright’s new deal is for an extra year.
The key forward taken at No.8 in the 2014 AFL Draft said he was rapt to extend his deal.
“This gives me the chance to become the player that both I, and the club, want me to be,” Wright said.
"I’m incredibly grateful to the club for their commitment and belief in me and I can’t wait to get out there and play some good footy.”
Wright, from Victoria, played three games in his debut season, but with Charlie Dixon traded to Port Adelaide during the off-season, looks set for more senior action in 2016.
The 19-year-old lives with good mate and fellow Vic Metro product Touk Miller and said he was loving his time at the club.
“We have a really close group of players and we are all excited in the direction of the club,” he said.
Er … what, downwards?
Sam Day (Suns) is clunking them today.He’s out of contract.
Might be a better cheaper option than Patton or Jenkins.
I would chip into the salary to try and lure Peter Wright to come. Kid will be a jet
He’s an Essendon lad, and doesn’t like the culture up in GC. We could get him if we wanted him.
Would absolutely love to get him. Can play ruck but is predominantly a good 1on1 forward. Is going to be a star
Sam Day (Suns) is clunking them today.He’s out of contract.
Might be a better cheaper option than Patton or Jenkins.
I would chip into the salary to try and lure Peter Wright to come. Kid will be a jet
He’s an Essendon lad, and doesn’t like the culture up in GC. We could get him if we wanted him.
Did he support us as a kid? I didn’t know that.
He played for Moonee Valley in junior, whether he was an Essendon supporter as a kid I have no idea.
Also, if he hates it so much, why did he sign a contract extension?
PETER Wright has signed a contract extension that will keep him at Gold Coast until the end of 2017.
As revealed by AFL.com.au earlier on Tuesday, Wright’s new deal is for an extra year.
The key forward taken at No.8 in the 2014 AFL Draft said he was rapt to extend his deal.
“This gives me the chance to become the player that both I, and the club, want me to be,” Wright said.
"I’m incredibly grateful to the club for their commitment and belief in me and I can’t wait to get out there and play some good footy.”
Wright, from Victoria, played three games in his debut season, but with Charlie Dixon traded to Port Adelaide during the off-season, looks set for more senior action in 2016.
The 19-year-old lives with good mate and fellow Vic Metro product Touk Miller and said he was loving his time at the club.
“We have a really close group of players and we are all excited in the direction of the club,” he said.
Er … what, downwards?
I think he’s a parachuting enthusiast.
We could do worse than get Sumich as an assistant IMO.
Fark Sumich - he cost us the 1990 flag.
We could do better than get Sumich as an assistant IMO.
We could do worse than get Sumich as an assistant IMO.
Suma- daylight- no coach at all- skipworth