Truck slams into crowd at Bastille Day Celebrations- Terror attack likely

Waleed Aly tonight will blame this truck accident on Pauline Hanson cutting the trucks brakes

No. He won’t.
Nor will he call it an accident.

Somehow you’ll find what he does say more offensive than that last post, that’s my prediction.

I'm more interested in the 'very real threat Islam presents to our Western freedoms and values.' I've heard it before. It wasn't expanded on then, either.
Does it really require explanation?

It does. Obviously it does. It’s a massive, massive statement.
But I don’t expect one because it’s copy pasta sloganeering. It’s meant to be read and accepted, not justified.


Wake up!

These people preach hatred and death to the West (and to other Muslims)!

Why do you think they are blowing themselves up, detonating bombs, flying planes in to buildings, running over people in the street?

Why does ISIS exist? Hamas? Hezbollah? Boko Haram? The list goes on…

Educate yourself on what these groups are saying, what they believe, what they want.

You forgot to say sheeple.
So before you were saying ISIS was the extremist part of Islam and now you’re saying Islam is ISIS.
And still nothing justifying your comment.

If you don’t want to, just say so.

I don’t even know what you’re talking about. Talking to you can be incredibly frustrating.

I understand that communication is not always my strong point, but I’d hope on this point I’m being quite clear.
You said, “the very real threat that Islam presents to our Western freedoms and values.”
I’m asking you to explain what you mean by that.
Which freedoms. Which values?
Are they exclusively Western?
Are you talking about the Australian version of freedom and values, or just the ones shared by, say…the US and UK?
In what way is the threat ‘very real?’
Who are the powerful people of Islam working against them, and apparently gaining real measurable gains in these areas…and just on that, what specifically are these gains?

Or is it, as I first mentioned, just copy pasta sloganeering that you haven’t even thought about before repeating?

Surely that’s clear.

I’m on my phone (and it has no battery) so can’t do this question justice, but if we take France as the case study for Muslim immigration (I believe along with Germany it has the largest population in Europe), we have Hi seen several attacks which present a direct threat to our western democratic <b class="Bold"0>value of living in peace and security, free from the threat of terrorism. I would also encourage you to read up on the “no go” zones which have been described as mini Islamic states that are too dangerous to enter. I would also point to Charlie Hebdo which was a blatant attack on our right to free speech and a free press.


Probably not exclusive to Western democracies, that.

I can’t imagine anyone wanting to live in a war zone

The political discussions and news threads really make you feel disdain for some fellow posters.

Right, so when you say 'our' you're not talking about Australia at all. Or, as far as the Charlie Hebdo attacks go, Islam.

You need to be consistent with how you frame these things.
Either Islam = ISIS or it doesn’t. They’re not interchangable depending on whatever point you want to make.

So Charlie Hebdo had nothing to do with Islam? What???

I also failed to mention the Jewish population of France fleeing in droves because they are no longer safe.

This is obviously just one country, but we are seeing this the world over.

Fortunately, Australia is nowhere near as far gone as France but that’s largely because our population is relatively small so we don’t have as many of that fanatic element.

However, I believe every person convicted of terrorism in this country has been Islamic. We just had a teenage admit to planning a terror attack on Anzac day as an example.

I am not sure posting that huge list is all that helpful. I work with Muslims and these guys are all good and condemn this crap, it breaks theirs hearts to see this. They also acknowledge that there is a huge problem with this in the world and that many terrorists are travelling to the West to cause issues.

I personally think that for the most part most Aussie Muslims want to have a serious discussion about this iussue, their problem though is that these discussions are hijacked by the extreme right who simply turn it into a chant to deport all Muslims and it becomes a racist issue and then the left side of Islam comes out posting silly crap about the racist things they face and chant racist in our faces.

Posting that crap just adds to that problem. Discussing Islam doesn’t have to resort to the usual bigoted, racist statements to address a real issue.

That to me is interesting. In my all years I working in large organisations I can honestly say I rarely if ever knew the religion of anyone I worked with. It only ever come up if you were invited to a wedding or a bar mitzvah or some other celebration.
Religion was never discussed.

Why has it now become such an issue in a supposedly secular country such as this one that people are discussing what religion they follow?
To me that says our society has changed substantially.

Well you see I tend to be a very friendly person who likes to get to know people on a personal level which involes asking such questions as “are you in a relationship, do you have children, do you follow a religious belief, what do you think about such and such”. I enjoy conversation and differing opinions so I tend to ask questions and open discussion lines. It is who I am. I have been working since the late 70’s and it has always been that way.

I find it very intriguing when people say they have no idea what their fellow co-workers believe about life.

I am sure you see yourself as friendly. However if someone I worked with asked me all those questions I would think it was exceedingly rude, unless I knew them very well. Certainly my relationship status has nothing to do with people I work with either.

I perceive Waled Aly as a moderate.
When he last spoke out against ISIS, the talk he gave rated off the charts and was a major talking point.

Maybe I just don’t know enough Waled Aly types.

I admit to living a closeted existance and plead guilty to the charge of not going out to canvas and interview the other 1.6 billion Muslims for their opinions.

Why does the threat have to be so intangible, like ‘values’ and ‘freedoms?’

Radical Islam poses a real threat to the lives of people living in Western Europe, and France specifically. No doubt about that. It poses a real threat to the lives of those living in the middle East as well, if you want to take the ‘Western’ aspect out of it.

Essentially, it doesn’t matter if they follow Mohammed, a spaceship, lizard people or the spaghetti monster, there is a bunch of nutcases commiting orchestrated mass murder around the globe, and that’s an issue that isn’t going away, and needs to be addressed.

Why does the threat have to be so intangible, like 'values' and 'freedoms?'

Radical Islam poses a real threat to the lives of people living in Western Europe, and France specifically. No doubt about that. It poses a real threat to the lives of those living in the middle East as well, if you want to take the ‘Western’ aspect out of it.

Essentially, it doesn’t matter if they follow Mohammed, a spaceship, lizard people or the spaghetti monster, there is a bunch of nutcases commiting orchestrated mass murder around the globe, and that’s an issue that isn’t going away, and needs to be addressed.

I think people would rather argue semantics than accept the bleedingly obvious.

Um, has it even been confirmed this was a religious-based terror attack?

Right, so when you say 'our' you're not talking about Australia at all. Or, as far as the Charlie Hebdo attacks go, Islam.

You need to be consistent with how you frame these things.
Either Islam = ISIS or it doesn’t. They’re not interchangable depending on whatever point you want to make.

So Charlie Hebdo had nothing to do with Islam? What???

I also failed to mention the Jewish population of France fleeing in droves because they are no longer safe.

This is obviously just one country, but we are seeing this the world over.

Fortunately, Australia is nowhere near as far gone as France but that’s largely because our population is relatively small so we don’t have as many of that fanatic element.

However, I believe every person convicted of terrorism in this country has been Islamic. We just had a teenage admit to planning a terror attack on Anzac day as an example.

I didn’t say Hebdo had nothing to do with Islam, it was the religion that inspired those attacks.
But I’m not talking about semantics, there’s a very clear difference in the terms you’re using interchangably.
Are you talking about the Islamic community of Australia when you say Islam, or are you talking about ISIS?

This isn’t rocket science.

Edit: As far gone?

Um, has it even been confirmed this was a religious-based terror attack?

No. No one has claimed responsibility as yet. Don’t let that stop anyone tarring a whole religion with the brush of a few extremists though.

Surprised we haven’t heard the shrill from Ol’ Redneck herself yet …

Why does the threat have to be so intangible, like 'values' and 'freedoms?'

Radical Islam poses a real threat to the lives of people living in Western Europe, and France specifically. No doubt about that. It poses a real threat to the lives of those living in the middle East as well, if you want to take the ‘Western’ aspect out of it.

Essentially, it doesn’t matter if they follow Mohammed, a spaceship, lizard people or the spaghetti monster, there is a bunch of nutcases commiting orchestrated mass murder around the globe, and that’s an issue that isn’t going away, and needs to be addressed.

Yes, but wouldn’t it be nice if all of the spaceship people, all the lizard people and all of the spaghetti monster people said in one voice. “We find killing in the name of our religion abhorrent and instead of cough backdoor funding the perpetrators, part of our billions of petrodollars will be spent on stamping out such beliefs and extremism”.

Why does the threat have to be so intangible, like 'values' and 'freedoms?'

Radical Islam poses a real threat to the lives of people living in Western Europe, and France specifically. No doubt about that. It poses a real threat to the lives of those living in the middle East as well, if you want to take the ‘Western’ aspect out of it.

Essentially, it doesn’t matter if they follow Mohammed, a spaceship, lizard people or the spaghetti monster, there is a bunch of nutcases commiting orchestrated mass murder around the globe, and that’s an issue that isn’t going away, and needs to be addressed.

Yes, but wouldn’t it be nice if all of the spaceship people, all the lizard people and all of the spaghetti monster people said in one voice. “We find killing in the name of our religion abhorrent and instead of cough backdoor funding the perpetrators, part of our billions of petrodollars will be spent on stamping out such beliefs and extremism”.

None of the Muslims I know have billions in petro-dollars.

Of all the posts here though, I’m really surprised at the lack of what I think is the most pertinent question, & one I’ve been asking in my head since 7 am …

How on earth, … in a country that has suffered so many attacks in the past 2 years, & is/was currently under a “State of Emergency”, … does a large truck, full of guns ammo, & explosives no less, even get the opportunity to drive into an area where people are gathered in large numbers unchecked or challenged, on a day that is likely to be a prime time target for these barstards, at all??

Let alone get access to the crowd itself, to the point it can drive at high speed for 2 fking kilometers through them??

The mind just fking reels that this was possible. When the answer is as simple as having two trucks of your own blocking the street from access to any other than authorised vehicles, surely this is an easily identified risk, that could easily have been eliminated, & someone needs a good fking beating for the situation.

Can’t stop shaking my head at it.

Why does the threat have to be so intangible, like 'values' and 'freedoms?'

Radical Islam poses a real threat to the lives of people living in Western Europe, and France specifically. No doubt about that. It poses a real threat to the lives of those living in the middle East as well, if you want to take the ‘Western’ aspect out of it.

Essentially, it doesn’t matter if they follow Mohammed, a spaceship, lizard people or the spaghetti monster, there is a bunch of nutcases commiting orchestrated mass murder around the globe, and that’s an issue that isn’t going away, and needs to be addressed.

Yes, but wouldn’t it be nice if all of the spaceship people, all the lizard people and all of the spaghetti monster people said in one voice. “We find killing in the name of our religion abhorrent and instead of cough backdoor funding the perpetrators, part of our billions of petrodollars will be spent on stamping out such beliefs and extremism”.

None of the Muslims I know have billions in petro-dollars.

And anyway Wim, I would have thought that someone as well connected as you are, would be constantly rubbing shoulders with the rich and famous.

Shieks, Sultans, Kings, Queens, Pharaohs, that sort of thing.

I know a few queens…

Umm, your second favourite team wouldn’t be St. Kilda would it?

Why does the threat have to be so intangible, like 'values' and 'freedoms?'

Radical Islam poses a real threat to the lives of people living in Western Europe, and France specifically. No doubt about that. It poses a real threat to the lives of those living in the middle East as well, if you want to take the ‘Western’ aspect out of it.

Essentially, it doesn’t matter if they follow Mohammed, a spaceship, lizard people or the spaghetti monster, there is a bunch of nutcases commiting orchestrated mass murder around the globe, and that’s an issue that isn’t going away, and needs to be addressed.

I think people would rather argue semantics than accept the bleedingly obvious.

We’re not really arguing the same thing I don’t think.

I’m saying we should address the problem by taking the religion aspect out of it. You’re saying the exact opposite.

Why does the threat have to be so intangible, like 'values' and 'freedoms?'

Radical Islam poses a real threat to the lives of people living in Western Europe, and France specifically. No doubt about that. It poses a real threat to the lives of those living in the middle East as well, if you want to take the ‘Western’ aspect out of it.

Essentially, it doesn’t matter if they follow Mohammed, a spaceship, lizard people or the spaghetti monster, there is a bunch of nutcases commiting orchestrated mass murder around the globe, and that’s an issue that isn’t going away, and needs to be addressed.

Yes, but wouldn’t it be nice if all of the spaceship people, all the lizard people and all of the spaghetti monster people said in one voice. “We find killing in the name of our religion abhorrent and instead of cough backdoor funding the perpetrators, part of our billions of petrodollars will be spent on stamping out such beliefs and extremism”.

None of the Muslims I know have billions in petro-dollars.

Yes well, you’re probably right.

Of all the things mentioned like, Lizard People, Spaceships and Spaghetti Monsters. Petrodollars probably don’t really exist.

Why does the threat have to be so intangible, like 'values' and 'freedoms?'

Radical Islam poses a real threat to the lives of people living in Western Europe, and France specifically. No doubt about that. It poses a real threat to the lives of those living in the middle East as well, if you want to take the ‘Western’ aspect out of it.

Essentially, it doesn’t matter if they follow Mohammed, a spaceship, lizard people or the spaghetti monster, there is a bunch of nutcases commiting orchestrated mass murder around the globe, and that’s an issue that isn’t going away, and needs to be addressed.

Yes, but wouldn’t it be nice if all of the spaceship people, all the lizard people and all of the spaghetti monster people said in one voice. “We find killing in the name of our religion abhorrent and instead of cough backdoor funding the perpetrators, part of our billions of petrodollars will be spent on stamping out such beliefs and extremism”.

None of the Muslims I know have billions in petro-dollars.

Yes well, you’re probably right.

Of all the things mentioned like, Lizard People, Spaceships and Spaghetti Monsters. Petrodollars probably don’t really exist.

I’m sure petro-dollars exist, just none of the Muslims I know have any. I’ll ask them to stop doing that though, just in case, since we’re asking them to apologise for the things they have nothing to do with.

Um, has it even been confirmed this was a religious-based terror attack?

No. No one has claimed responsibility as yet. Don’t let that stop anyone tarring a whole religion with the brush of a few extremists though.

Surprised we haven’t heard the shrill from Ol’ Redneck herself yet …


It’s weird how news outlets are so obsessed with finding a label. I was watching CNN this morning (I know, but it’s all I get in English on my basic cable here) and they had a whole thing about whether or not they are calling this a “terrorist” attack. The semantics they got into were nauseating. “Well, we don’t know if it was ISIS behind this, but surely this would seem to be a terrorist attack.” “Well, it’s an attack on innocent people, but can it be called terrorism?” And on it went.

We want to fit these things into neat little categories so our simple minds can comprehend them and we can move on, compile our statistics and opinions on certain undesirables in society, give politicians buzzwords to trumpet.