Started already …
A family friend told The Age that Herrmann was taken from his Aboriginal parents in Queensland from a young age, has been in and out of Juvenile Psychiatry centres and was homeless in his late teenage years after running away from his foster parents residence. His sister Ruby is a well known Aboriginal rights activist and described as one of the leaders of the ‘Change the Date’ movement. Both Hermann & his sister were part of the recent anti-Nazi rally in St. Kilda.
Well if that’s the facts then that’s the facts.
Well that becomes a question of how good is our reform system, not our legal one.
It needn’t be. Not for the few cases I think warrant having it.
I’d rather just have an actual proper life sentence than a death penalty, death would be too quick, too painless and will make martyrs of monsters.
Only last week I had a discussion at the pub with a bloke from the US. Interestingly before all this has played out.
He was in favour of Capital punishment, rather than a life sentence.
The big question I asked is, “what are we trying to achieve by putting criminals in prison?”
Are we using prisons to to keep the public safe?
Are we using it to punish?
Are we using it as revenge?
Or, Are we using it to rehabilitate?
It seems the justice system is trying to be a little bit of all, without any real commitment to any.
IMO rehabilitation should be the highest of priorities, while prisoners are confined to an environment that keeps everyone safe.
It’s a bit of all and the ratios (rightly) should vary from case to case.
It’s an interesting question. For the worst kind of crimes, I think that penalties make little difference as a deterrent. And rehabilitation is possibly beyond the scope, let alone the acceptable budget of the system. Revenge it is.
Not sure, as before prisons a lot of culture did some form of eye for an eye. Prison is certainly more civilised than that type of revenge.
A complex subject.
Just looked it up the first prisons were the Greeks who put people there who couldn’t pay their debts.
It’s allways about money.
Reckon you hear about a horrendous crime and can wail and wail about appropriate sentence, death sentence, rehab, education etc etc.
I don’t reckon that will stop it happening again.
Then you will have these diacussions all over again… Don’t think you can really have a war on crime as much as a war on drugs, terrorism or any other aspects of the human condition which has some terrible outcomes.
Its probably better to instead of focusing on these people, instead focus on the good in life. Have a more connected community, stronger families and realise that being a victim of violent crime in Australia is still highly unlikely.
We are one of the safest places on earth.
We can implement preventative ‘young mens’ and ‘healthy relationships’ programs in schools and organisations all we like, but unless young men are witnessing these values in real life by their peers and superiors… it’s almost f*cking pointless.
Young men are constantly looking for role models. They emulate the behaviours that are socially normalised.
Eye for an eye I say.
But then I’m biased because one of these monsters ended my dad’s life with a bullet to the head.
Yeah that will often change a person’s perspective on such issues.
I am sorry for that happening to your family Mackster and for losing your father in such a horrible way.
Do most people here believe that violence against women is a subset of violence in general, and particularly of the bullying kind where there is little physical repercussion, and/or the possessive/domination kind where one feels the need to overpower to reach their goal?
Have just finished listening to the Casefile podcast episodes on the East Area Rapist (also known as the Golden State Killer). This devil incarnate raped over 50 women during his reign of terror from 1976-1986 and also murdered 13+ people (including a few men). He was a former police officer and evaded capture for decades, until last April (2018) when DNA testing identified him. He is 73 now and the judge ruled that he can’t afford his own defence, so the taxpayer is expected to foot the bill in a case that is predicted to last at least a decade and cost upwards of $20m USD. Will obviously be found guilty (if still alive), but I think it is manifestly unfair that he spend his few remaining days alive in a cell (preferring the alternative).
Well, there are a few points there that I find particularly salient.
Beginning from the end, as it were - it should not ‘cost $20m to run the case’. That is a ridiculous number. Nor should the case run for 10 years. That it could, shows up the inadequacies of the so-called justice system.
Next - the term ‘fair trial’ can get confusing - because people want it to be confusing. If we accept that a fair trial is the right of everyone, then if we were honest, we’d have a huge amount of backtracking and re-forging ahead to bring it to that stage. But that’s not what we do, and it’s not not what we will ever do, because collectively, we are not interested in ‘fair trials’. What we are interested in, is a trial outcome that we agree with. This is the same in many areas - like politics, for example.
Mankind is farking greedy and selfish, when viewed as an organism, and that’s what got us here in the first place. We are experiencing problems because what brought us here threatens to devolve us - or at least take us down a path that feels retrograde.
But there really is no ‘right path’, is there? There is only preference, power, wealth, weight of opinion, greed and all the emotions our particular set of chemicals can experience.
i think the 10 years was if they were to try every charge as its own trial.
Agreed re: length of trial, etc. It’s an extremely complex case. First of all, there is a huge volume of charges. Next, the statue of limitations on the rape charges has run out, so the lawyers have to charge him with kidnappings to commit robberies using a gun and knife. And then there are all the murder charges, etc.
I was referring to this when I posted. The EAR case is at the end of the spectrum re: worst crimes. Given his age, rehab is no option. Incarceration for the remainder of his days (given that he evaded capture for so long and is an elderly man) is scant justice for all the victims and their loved ones. Retribution, in the form of the death penalty, is the only remaining option for mine.